NOT honing a cylinder wall, is it recommended?

I remember seeing an article by a ring manufacturer that said in certain cases you could replace rings and NOT hone the cylinder walls. Has any one heard about this or read about it?

 

Sounds like a lot of BS to me. As far as I always believed the honing breaks in and seals new rings.

 

still have to use a dingle ball hone to break the glaze, I have had good luck with moly rings sealing well after doing that. I wont use a stone hone, takes off too much material and tries to straighten the cylinder, not good for piston to wall clearance if the cylinders are already worn.

 

I use to "not" do it to the Briggs & Stratton engine on my mini-bike when I was a kid.

Wouldn't think of "not" doing it to a car engine today.

You get older, you get wiser.

 

crosshatch pattern.

 

Yes, I heard this years ago,never tried it.

 

that is the recommend method now days per sealed power or what ever the name of the co. that makes M/T pistons these days---talking about motors that have not been bored--not old school is it---anyone heard of using tranny fluid instead of oil on the rings and pistons on a new build?

 

Yes

 

In my 1959 edition of MOTORS MANUAL, it says in the engine rebuild section, and I'm paraphrasing, "prior to installing the piston/rings into the cylinders, a cylinder hone is used to break the glaze; crocus cloth may be used by hand, but this method is much inferior to honing (ya' think!)". Same deal here, I ball hone everything, but for a very short length of time. Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

no hone on a chrome /nikasil bore...but a doubt you will find one ona run of the mill v-8.....Shawn

 

In my 1959 edition of MOTORS MANUAL,-------that would be cast or chrome rings and it is still right----but most of us use moly or plasmamoly now days

 

I don't know who makes the M/T pistons but it's not the Sealed Power of old. I worked there for 43 years and they sold the Sealed Power name back in the late 80's early 90's. At that time we hadn't made pistons for around 20 years

 

If you don't hone the cylinders it will wear out the rings prematurely and put oil on your back bumper, I've seen it plenty of times. A good hone with stones is best for plasma-moly rings, but you can get away with a dingle ball hone if the cylinders are still fairly straight. Cast rings are very forgiving, but you must have the cross hatch pattern right, best is 45 degrees where they intersect, too steep or too flat and the rings wont seat. If you want to run anything very exotic, gapless, stainless, or a super thin ring, you had better use stones.

JW

 

If you have the pistons out you should clean it up. If you want to reuse the same pistons mmake sure they go back into the same cylinders! I would still hone it regardless

 

I've done over 400 motors and honed them all.There is always a new wizzo idea with new tech that mostly turns out to be BS. I have heard of this idea many years ago and yeh.......... BS !!! I think it was late 70s- early 80s, the rings were very soft and wore out as fast as they bedded in , pure junk!! JW

 

Well if you don't want to hone it, might as well leave the old rings in it too.

I'd use a Dingle ball

 

I have not built anywhere near 400 motors nor have I ever built one without forged pistons and a forged crank and they have all been properly crosshatch honed and balanced and align honed etc. but the question was about a tech article ---yes i did see it and it was by a piston manufacturer with a good reputation --it was in the front of the mag with the short article's HOT ROD with in the last three years--it's that entry level forged piston summitt and jegs sell--SpeedPro?--they also furnish the blanks for most high dollar pistons--legitimate research by manufacturers has value far in excess of BS or antedotal evidence --we just need to evaluate it and make our own decisions

 

I tried that on a motorcycle when I was a kid. It didn't work so good. Ended up having to bore the cylinder and install a new piston and rings.

 

Use the ball hone ,pre lube the new rings and corresponding grooves with a quality oil , wipe the walls before assembly with the same oil . The ball hone leaves hatch marks , the degree of which is up to the machinist , speed and stroke are important here. Hatcch marks help the oil channel between the new and old surfaces to prevent hot spots (welding) during the break in period. On fire up , do vary the speed , don't idle for extended periods , do not overheat !

 

This is very common, and I personally have "ringed up" dozens of engines.
They are very successful on Jap engines where the engines wear the rings out but the bore will still have the factory crosshatch after 150,000km's

The rings are made by Repco/ACL and are called protec. They have a special groove in the Top Ring so that it doesn't interfere with any lip in the bore

Car dealers down under Love 'em!

 

Chevy Power 5th edition (1984) says there are times when cylinders (on a race engine) should not be honed unless absolutely necessary.

 

The last time I saw a chrome cylinder wall was in my '82 Kawasaki snowmobile.

 

ok so now what?

 

Then we BTT and ask for more input.

 

Is that a low mileage, low time, high effort race motor rebuild?
There's a big difference from high mileage, smoothed over cylinder bores.

 

If also says if required, and for new builds, honing by an automatic honing machine such as the Sunnen CK-10 is preferred. Good thing I have one of those!

 

Early vegas with the all aluminum block you didn't hone, if you did the rings would roll the cylinder walls right off.

I have never run an iron or steel cylinder that did not get the glaze broken, or finish honed if it was bored. One may get lucky and get the rings to seat but I believe that you make your own luuck and on an engine build it is done by proper practice.

 

Right you put put it togehter with no honing then fire it up and put boraxo (aka rebuild in a can: into the air cleaner while it's running to seat the rings then hope the stuff didn't do too much damage to the guides and bearings before it gets washed out. Oh yes, I've seen this done several times by people who should know better but it does make a sad engine seem happier long enough to sell it.........

 

I always take a plug out and blow it directly into the cylinder wth a soda straw. Very old used car salesman trick.

 

In the 30s, I remember the Indy mechanics would use Bon Ami to break in rings that proved reluctant to seat on the Offys.