So NOW I am getting worried, is this even possible!?

Awesome! I have a 72 Vert Beetle that I am slowly but surly chopping and welding on. I will check them out.

 

If you have never lapped valves read on. First do NOT over lap/grind you only need a line contact from 1/16 to 1/8 MAX. on both the valve and seat. Second use FINE paste water mixed is easier to clean up. Third use a idiot stick ie suction cup tool ,oscillate it back and forth with LIGHT pressure ,lift the valve and rotate it about 120* do this twice . Then inspect the valve and seat for proper seating. I have seen many many,many lap jobs that went to far and then needed a regular valve job to fix the mess that over enthusiastic no nothings made.

 

^^^ John's advice is spot on, and you might try some MMO cut with acetone or MEK it will flow and penetrate better and dissolve the shit in the guides MMO alone probably won't be enough to wash the gummy shit out....

 

I have now had them stuck and un-stuck 6 times today. It does seem like they are SLIGHTLY easier to beat down now, but still stuck as hell. I am going to keep messing with them and try a little acetone up top in with the MMO. it is so scummed up that the MMO just sits up top and does not even run down the stems. I have been blasting the stems when down from the bottom so as to try and pull the cleaner up in to the valve guides when I bump them back up with the starter. I will keep working them 'till my awesome vintage Valve spring tool (the RIGHT one for my inline, not the one I have for SBC's) comes, then pull them out and clean the shit out of everything! Stuck vavles are AWESOME!......

 

this is what i would use, works fast.

 

Be careful beating on them, they bend over easy ( i know there is a joke somewhere in there)

 

Good shit... one place I worked years ago, we had this old timer come in to do the valves on flatheads and he used the prussian blue to check his lapping progress. I've used layout dye to check my lapping and you can even use a lead pencil to see how it smears as you lap the valves.

Bob

 

I like to soak old gummed assemblies with Marvel Mystery Oil... And I recommend doing a leak down on each cylinder, tells you more about the ring seal and valve seat and how they are doing.

 

Carburetor cleaner will work better than Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) to dissolve the gummy stuff on the valve stems.

 

I think I mentioned carb cleaner long ago on this thread....yeah, it will help dissolve the gummy stuff, so you can get the valves out.

 

No $hit, never saw that before.....hmmm.

 

I bought a gallon of caustic acid with the dip basket like I used to have when I rebuilt and sold old Holleys often, STRONG stuff, they will be bathing (one at a time so as to keep them in order) in that with their springs and keepers soon. Also I WILL NOT (thank god!) have to remove my manifolds to use mt SBC valve spring compressor now as a fellow HAMBer (thanks Wayne!) has pointed me towards the right style of compressor for flat heads.

Grapp, I am being as gentle as I can be while still getting the bastards to move, but any valve stems that I bend I will claim "were" bent already and replace them. Just like the dealership would do for $90 pr hr! lol

 

Is THAT why peckers stop working when they get old!!!? I told my neighbors wife to start pricking his pecker to check his sugar, as he still used his hands! Your welcome Harold

 

Bump for Packardhead making sure your finger isn't stuck under a valve.

 

Nope, I am just waiting for my valve spring compressor to get here is all. Might have to do some of the work I have been neglecting around here for a few day till it gets here.

 

Got it, bout to go see what I can tear up!

 

So what is the best way to get these bastard valves out? I put corks in the drain holes (even the 2 small hidden ones) started with a valve that IS NOT stuck, compressed the valve spring, took out both halfs of the keeper, let the pressure off the spring, then I used the starter to bump it up so I can get my fingers under it, and that sucker is in there good! I am used to the SBC's where you just remove the valve spring and tap the valves out gently if needed. On this motor I can't get the spring out of the way UNTIL I get the valve out. I do not want to pry against the seat and can not tap it from the bottom in this application. So what is the long forgotten trick here fellas? Thanks!

 

Is this a stuck valve, or one that's free? might start with the ones that move, and see how it all works.

 

Squirrel, what's up man!? No, this is one of the "un-stuck" ones. I figured that I would start with a few of those so that I would know how hard "normal" stuck was when I did the stuck ones. So what is the trick on these old flatheads?

 

Try putting a piece of wood, plastic or aluminum between the valve and lifter and turn the engine over.

 

476 posts since August??? Is that possible? Holy chipotle. Your gonna beat Squirrel by Christmas...

 

and here's my second post for today...757 in 10 years...

 

Or maybe lay a 2 x 4 block on each side of the valve then a piece of something thin and sturdy bridged over the valve. Then use that new fancy compressor to lift the valve toward your "bridge". This is assuming that you can at least get clearance between valve and head for compressor fork.

Channel locks and shop rag
Curtain cord and cussin

Or as someone stated shim to bump lifter with cam (soft)

 

Have you checked the diameter of the valve stem at the lifter end to see if the stem is mushroomed and that might be what's keeping the unstuck valve from coming out ?

Just a thought.

 

The tip could be mushroomed, also the keeper groove could be mushroomed. If you can file them it might help.

I'm having trouble imagining what is going on...because it's been a long day...pics?

 

"Try putting a piece of wood, plastic or aluminum between the valve and lifter and turn the engine over."
I like this one! Good stuff, thanks!

"476 posts since August??? Is that possible? Holy chipotle. Your gonna beat Squirrel by Christmas..."
I think that averages like 10 posts per day. I try to welcome 1-3 newbs with 0 replies each time, so 7-9 posts per day does not seem excessive to me. Is it an unusually high amount? Never have been a shy guy.....


"Or maybe lay a 2 x 4 block on each side of the valve then a piece of something thin and sturdy bridged over the valve. Then use that new fancy compressor to lift the valve toward your "bridge". This is assuming that you can at least get clearance between valve and head for compressor fork.

Channel locks and shop rag
Curtain cord and cussin"
I had wondered about that but not enough room. I will try more cussin' tho!

"Have you checked the diameter of the valve stem at the lifter end to see if the stem is mushroomed and that might be what's keeping the unstuck valve from coming out ?

Just a thought."
And a GOOD thought that I had not considered, but I have not got it to go up ANY higher then the cam pushed it. Wow, if that is how sticky the "un-stuck" valves are I am glad I chose to take it all out (if I can get it out!) and clean it right.

Squirrel, I have not made any progress to take a pic of, maybe in the morning.

I have combined all these replies so as not to create any additional "post count envy" lol! I think once my damn Packard goes back to running right that my post count/length of membership average will level out quite a bit. Thanks to all for your help! Will stacks of pennies be soft enough to stack in different heights for the "bump" shims?

 

Use more carb cleaner on the stem in the valve spring chamber. There's varnish/crud on the stem that makes the stem too large to fit thru the guide. If the valve stops coming up when the end gets to the guide, then you need to file the burr off like Squirrel says. But first you got to get all the crud off the stem behind the valve spring.

 

I was just joking about the post count, if your welcoming new guys and getting like like this, good for you, that's what this place is for. As said, very important to file off the tip of the valve if its mushroomed a bit. If not it will damage your guide as you pull it out. If there is so much buildup on the stem causing this, again, as said, lots of carb clear type stuff and try to grip the head of the valve and twist it while applying the solvent, theis will help it get down into the guide where you need it. Once its to a point of loose enough to try and pull out, you could make a simple Hoist/lever with a piece of wood/metal with a rope with a noose on it going around the valve stem so you can pry up on the valve with some mechanical advantage. best ouwld be to have a buddy help and one guy pull up on the valve while the other one twists it. it could be wise to make a double noose(two of them) with the rope comingup on opposite sides so when you pull up you arent pullling on the valve at an angle. On will suffice, the valves are pretty strong as long as you dont He-Man it.
Good luck. Hans

 

Yeah I got my post count fair and square! Not one of these guys that just goes and posts one word replies on EVERY thread. I got a good 20 just arguing with Squirrel about ugly ass (but effective) header wrap the other day! lol I am about to go re up on a few more cans of carb cleaner, that is why I plugged the holes with corks (Lowes has all sizes) not just a rag, I figured that "DE"-greaser is the last thing you want on your main bearings, I will still change the oil again before I crank 'er back up tho just in case. I do not see any burs or mushrooming yet, if/when I do, should I use a file, or sandpaper, or my dremmel, (A very handy little thing) orrr? I am about to put on my engineering cap and break out the welder and fabricate a valve removal tool real quick and see what I come up with. I will post pics of whatever tool I come up with. Might be the best tool ever, might just have to point and laugh, either way it will be worth seeing so stay tuned!

 

I use a file to remove burrs on valve stems. I would definitely not use a grinder of any kind (including a dremel) inside an engine that I wanted to run again....

A forked tool might work for persuading the valves to come out. Something that applies force on both sides, near the stem, so the force is in the direction you want it to be. Not in a direction that could bend the valve.