Projects HELP! In Wyoming and still HAVING FUEL DELIVERY PROBLEMS! I need some more BRAINS!

OK, if you've been following my Rodfather Tour thread you know I've been having issues with my '58 T-bird. Here's what's going on.

I bought the car several weeks ago in Oregon and drove it home to NorCal. On that trip it would chug, starving for fuel like it was vapor-locking. I tired the clothespin trick (which didn't help) and then drove later into the night when it was cooler. It seemed to do it on uphill grades and not on the flats.

Fast forward...I spent the last few weeks prepping for this 5016-mile trip. Among other things I geared up for what I thought was vapor-locking by adding a fan shroud, shielded the fuel line near the motor and added an electric pump inline next to the tank, retaining the mechanical pump.

So, driving around town it was fine. We headed out on the tour and headed up to Tahoe. Going up the grade it started the chugging again so I kicked on the electric pump and it smoothed out right away. I left the electric pump running until he headed down the back side into Reno. At the bottom, on the flat it did it again. Electric pump went on, chugging stopped.

So now my thought was that the mechanical pump was loperating intermittently and I tracked one down. I drove that next day with the electric pump on, intending to install the new mechanical that night. At one stop I was out of gas and poured some in from my can. With the electric pump on it seemed to be pumping past the needle and seat and spitting into the carb. Hmmm, no regulator and the pump's too strong. Then I saw about an 8" puddle of oil under the main seal. Crap!

At last night's stop I was talking with a friend who suggested that the main seal may have been compromised because maybe the pump was pumping too much gas and washed out the oil. The WAS thin that was coming out and was still leaking badly.

So, I changed the oil and added some stop leak before changing out the mechanical pump.

This morning we left Wendover heading through Utah where it was flat. The new mechanical pump seemed to work just fine and the 120 miles to the first stop was smooth except for the puffs of white smoke now coming out of the exhaust from my NEW ENGINE!

So now I leave Salt Lake City headed East which is immediately uphill. The chugging starts right away. So for the rest of the day every time I hit even a slight grade the chugging started and the electric pump was kicked on (manually). I'd turn it off as soon as I thought I didn't need it.

It does it from full to empty, so I don't think it's the pickup. The gas tank and filter are brand new. The fuel line right out of the tank does go straight up. Would that be an issue?

So what the fuck!?!?!?!?! Please help!

Thanks!


-Float level?
-Actually vapor locking even though it's not running hot? (according to the stock gauge, before the fan shroud it ran hotter)
-A gremlin pinching my fuel line closed?
-?????????

 

Leave the cap off the tank for a while and see if it's sealing off and not venting. The electric pump may have enough suction to overcome this while the manual one may not. Also check the plugs next chance you get to see if they are lean. This will let you know if starvation is causing a lean condition. This will cause the engine to run hot. Also make sure the vacuum advance is working.

Good luck,

Tim

 

Have you tested the fuel presure at the card to what presure it is pumping?

 

my late model had an intermittant "chug". very slight. one morning it wouldn't start, no horn. lights nothing... so I pop the hood and jiggle the battery cables and they are loose. tightened them up and it started right up and hasn't done it since.

point being many times "fuel" problems are actually electrical. might check on all the wires around the distributor and coil.

 

I'm leaning towards what Tim "TERPU" said, or float level. I have four Fords here in Phoenix & I've never had a vapor lock problem. I don't think that's it. Good luck & be safe.

 

I would still check the fuel filter anyway, just in case it picked up some crud off the bottom of the tank. I have the same sort of problem in the t-bucket every so often...that's how I know it's time to clean the fuel filter out . It'll do fine on surface streets, but chug and sputter on the freeway.

 

Good advice from Tim also if you can check float level, if it is to low it could have enough supply on level ground but uphill or high load be lean or slightly starving also does the carb have a stone filter on the inlet could be a restriction also.

Good luck Jason HRG

 

Once thing that I fought on my 49 Ford on the way to Paso (2007 or 2008) was the stupid vent in the gas cap. Car ran great until it got to a grade. Acted like vapor lock, I went through almost everything you did. I would die, pull off to the shoulder, get out my gas can, crack the cap (note: I did not question the "HISS" at the time) dump in a gallon drive to the next gas stop and top off. Fought that for a week. Was getting gas one day and looked at the cap and rubber gasket, what do you know, the cap was supposed to be vented. Took a piece of wire and started rooting around. All sorts of crap came out. Took a small drill bit and opened the hole a bit and even more came out. Have not had an issue with "vapor lock" since. Check to make sure the tank is properly vented and not pressurizing.

 

About 30 yrs ago I was running my 68 El camino at the track (West Hampton) I would leave my shop and fill up the tank for the 60 mile drive, I would make my first pass the car would leave, I would hit second and it would start to lay dow,I would go back home and during the week check the fuel lines, check the carb, next add an electric fuel pump etc. I came home from the track determined to find the problem so right from the track I put it up on the lift and the gas tank was sucked in, pulled the cap and it came down.It was the original cap just that the vent hole got clogged and it couldn't vent.

 

Along with the tank possibly not venting I would be concerned with the white smoke. How often do you see white smoke? Whats the coolant level like? Last time I had white smoke it was a cracked head. ( burning the coolant ) every so often it would run funny and then clean out and be fine for a bit. Man I hope its not this and its just a venting issue....Check those plugs! Also mine ran worse in the morning for the first few minutes because over night enough coolant would leak into the cylinder, not enough to kill it just make it run bad for a few minutes then clear up......then come back. Good luck man I hope for the easy fix for ya.

 

The bummer is that I don't have the gauge to check the level, but I'm moving more toward that being the problem because with all the crap I have in the trunk the nose sits really high, then add in a grade and it's worse of course.

Keep the thinking going. Thanks!!!

 

Would the electric pump overpower the pressurizing or make it worse? I have not noticed it relieving pressure when I open it.

 

Also check those intake bolts....Just because there is no water in the oil doesnt mean its not leaking!

 

Sure acts like a fuel filter....

 

OK, I'll head outside and check the intake bolts and the filter.

 

If you had oil leaking from the rear main when parked,that would tell me that the diaphram in the pump had a crack and was allowing fuel to enter the crank case.Did more oil come out than you put in ? A pump cant suck more than ambiant air pressure can push. I would say there's more than one problem. You replaced the mechanical pump and same thing. Check as said above that the tank may be to air tight. Check for correct fuel pump pressure and the carb. may need a good going over, but mostly the fuel delivery system. Good luck. JW

 

I had to think of it like a plastic gas can on a hot day. Those things will bulge like crazy in the sun, hence the little yellow pressure relief. Not sure of the strength of the pump. If it was a Holley Red or Blue I'd say no problem. The little Napa vein type pump I have as an emergency backup does not do much more than the stock mechanical. Those pumps are designed to push more than pull as well. Can't push what isn't getting there.

I like the idea of leaving the cap off and driving it to see what you get. Agree with Chaz too on the filter. I have had them bad out of the box. Learned to hit them with compressed air before install. Bypass the filter for a few miles as well, or install a new (blow test) one.

 

The filter checked out good.

Plugs look pretty good.

 

generally when i install an electric pump i bypass the manual one as it can restrict flow.if your manual one is correct for your car then try bypassing electric. also make sure any rubber line isnt colapsed on the inside.i once bought a 400 amp welder totally rebuilt for 300.00 because the guy couldnt get it to idle right. 1.25 worth of gas hose later ,pressto ran like a champ.

 

That plug looks a bit lean. JW

 

Just try driving it with the cap loose (or off if it's possible) and try it. Takes 2 seconds and does not cost you a dime. For the smoke, check the oil and see if theres antifreeze in it, and make sure theres no bubbling in the radiator. Read the plugs, too. Your far enough out now, If theres no sign of oil/antifreeze mixing I'd press forward.

 

Plugs do look a little lean, but it may be the glare. Better a little rich then a little lean. Stock carb?

 

A little. But it has been leaning out all day until I turn the electric on.

 

The coolant looks good and so does the oil as far as I can tell.

The plug is a little yellower that the pic shows.

Going by this photo, it's between perfect and lean in person.

 

Take a real close look at the fuel line under the car from the tank to the mechanical pump. Could be there's a rubber hose somewhere under there that's sucking air when the mech pump is pulling a vac from the tank. It could be something someone added in the middle of the car somewhere and not a factory thing. Rubber hose don't last forever. Could even be in the engine comp....any where on the suction side of the pump can cause you this kind of problem.

And it dosen't neccesarilly mean it will leak gas under pressure either.

Or a steel line that got folded, smashed or crimped under there, too.

 

The rubber lines are all new and as short as I could run them. Checking the hard lines under the car is a great idea though. I'll have access to a lift tomorrow.

 

The electrode looks like its kinda got a white frost on it? Or maybe its just the pic. But hell if the coolant level is up at this point Just keep it in mind there could be a small leak. Gas pumper has a good idea too although it sounds like you have been under there checking.....

 

If you have a gas can I'd pull the fuel line off as close to the carb as possible, put the line in the can and run the electric pump. It will have a whole lot more demand of venting than when you are going down the road. If it pulls a vacuum in the tank the flow will slow considerably. If that doesn't work, look for the local hooker and let her pound the hell out of you tonight. That way you will at least feel better before you get on the road tomorrow. JC

 

I agree with 26 T Ford RPU, that looks a little lean to me as well.

 

The new fuel pump could be bad, The electric is overpowering the needle and seat at idle but is just enough at loaded rpm to overcome the water leak ( just a scenario ) try an inline regulator with a gauge and see if it still persists at a lower pressure. That is after you check all the lines on the lift tomorrow and find a hotel with cable that has the HUB channel HAPPY DAYS should be on soon..........til tomorrow Good luck man