I need help again!! I'm working on a '64 olds f-85. it runs GREAT, but starts hard!!!!! i've changed out every thing but the starter. it has an old point dist. with a Mallery elect. convertion. new wires , plugs, the newest is a new coil, made for the elect. conversion. i have full time 12 volts in the system by removing the resister wire and useing the correct spot in the original harness for a 12volt wire it cranks over and seems to start only when i let up on the key. when i push it started it starts instantly. also it starts better when i use jumper cables thanks guys
Do you have the voltage feedback wire from the solenoid to the coil? Sounds like your starter is taking all your power you need for te coil
does the car have a resistor wire between the ign switch and the coil? If so try jumping it with a regular wire and see if the condition moderates. Also try to add a ground wire from the starter to the block or frame. If the starter is drawing more than spec resistance it will drag down the coil enough to cause a low voltage situation in the coil primary circuit causing a weak spark. When you release the key the starter resistance is gone, and if the engine sill spins a bit it will fire up. Make a jumper with aligator clips sp you can shut it off after it starts. If the bushings in teh starter are worn, the may be allowing the armature to drag against the fiel coils, also adding to circuit resistance.
Sounds like the starter is taking all the juice and leaving very little for the ignition, and that can be a very frustrating thing to chase down.
yup, thats a good question. I'll think about that... tough tho when your alone to turn it over and check spark and voltage. might have to see if there is spark with the key cranked over. ( mr. obvious says no spark till i let the key go) might set up a jump wire with clips to hook battery to coil run now bitch!!
good question I do not have the solenoid to coil bypass wire hooked up!! didn't think it was needed with elect. ignition. because the coil now has full time 12volt wire---------------------------vethy intethesting it wasn't needed in some of the chevy set ups i wired. dear olds maybe different
I had a similar problem.I removed the 12v feed to the distributor ,connected a 12v light to the feed.Turned on the key,the light came on,turned the key to "start"the light went out.I ran a new 10gauge wire from the switched side of the fuse block to the distributor.Problem solved.I never found the cause.
Very interested in the outcome. I had put a Pertronix unit in my '47 Hudson a couple of years back, and I had the same problem. Cranky cranky cranky...nothin'...'til I let go of the key...then she'd fire. I thought it was a glitch with the Pertronix. Got pretty good at doing short cranks and letting the key spring back. Might not an issue for me now...doin' an engine swap. Though, if it's something to do with the wiring from the fuse box, as Boyd's seemed to be, it'll crop it's ugly head up again for me.
Make sure the Ign wire is not hooked up on the Accessory side of the switch. Most switches cut out all accesories when in the Start position.
First guess I would have is if you are losing power to the ignition when the starter is turning. Easy enough to check by wiring a small light into the power wire going to the coil. If the light goes off when turning on the key, troubleshoot that back. I am assuming your diagrams would look like this. Long story short, less than 12V can be getting to the starter and ignition because of it's design. Follow the direcions at http://www.novaresource.org/starter.htm and install a ford solenoid, which was very common for the Chevy guys I used to know in the stock cars they ran. Avoided hot start problems. I am assuming that you already replaced the battery cables (all) and you don't have a lot of resistance for the rather large current it takes to turn a starter? Just looking at the 1st pic, I would think maybe something is broken in the solenoid and voltage drops or dies completely until the bendix kicks back? Maybe?
If you've changed everything but the starter, then what's next to change... hint, it starts with an S. By jumping it, you up your amperage so that's a crutch for a bum starter. I like the idea of the Ford solenoid, worked great for me with the stock cars. Bob
Before you go replacing the starter, I'd try to narrow down the problem. Run a #12 wire from the battery to the starter solenoid and see if it still starts slowly. If it clears up your problem then your starter is fine.
Nowhere, in the world is there an equal think tank like the HAMB Diavolo, I know i didn't hook up the wire, coil /solenoid, like your diagram shows, it's hanging there! a quick "jump wire" test will tell me how dumb i am bob, the starter is a '67 30,000 mile GM starter and seemed to work well when i put it in there...but you are right, that would be next 65coupe, as mentioned before, that jump wire thing would tell alot don't you guys wish there was a muscle car website 1/2 as cool as the HAMB
Definitely jump it out, even use a #10 wire if you have it. The bigger the better with wire gages. GM starters don't last that long, went through 3 of them in my OT Chevy wagon in about 8 years... comes to about 23K miles per starter, so you're quite possibly there. I started running the Ford solenoids on my stock cars and even on my '65 Belair with great success. The above diagram is good, but I recall having to jump out terminals on the starter (maybe the R & S). I could go out to the garage and take a look if you think it may help you. Bob
It lives!! the more i work on these old cars the less i know! I brought the battery back where i bought it and said was tierd of chargeing it and it NEVER STARTED THE CAR WITH OUT JUMPERS! said it tested JUNK and gave me a new one after a year and a half! cool! i put the new battery in and used a jump wire and the engine spun over and started now it starts with out the jump wire!!!! so a bad battery, will make a car fire after you let up on the key!! so some of you guys were close... ground and maybe like the starter was useing to many amps...there weren't enofe amps to go around!!! thanks for your thought and input
Measuring the voltage at the battery terminals while cranking is useful to help determine if there is a battery issue. A well charged battery in good condition will maintain 9 or more volts. Less than 9 volts means either the battery is not charged enuff, or it might be physically bad. Voltage at the starter terminals and across other points in the circuit will pinpoint "bad" connections, undersized cable, and the necessity/value of an auxilliary solenoid.
If you still have the ballast resistor you need the bypass wire from the I terminal on your starter. Most electronic ignition conversions run on 12V but still maintain the 6V coil and ballast resistor.
I believe your conclusions are off a bit , however I'm glad you are up and running again. how about a better shot of that avatar!
so you think the "gremlin" is still there, maybe sleeping?.....shit! I only have ONE shot of the avatar, and its a poor picture! it was a double inlet air cleaner,and her long legs went all the way to the ends with spike heals. all hand painted, great peace of..art. I saw the car one time 18 years ago. if i had the air cleaner I'd build a car around her!!
All's well that ends and a bum battery will do it. That is the thing that I factor out first since its so easy to do. When in doubt, swap in a known-to-be-good battery. Bob
Yep a bad battery wouldn't make it past step one. One thats border line or just a touch low can make you insane. What's strange here is that without the "I" terminal wire thing. If its working that's great.
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