Hi- I have a 63 suburban panel. I want it to be a daily driver, and am attempting to restore it so it looks and runs good/reliably. I have a 350 that is mildly improved for low end torque, and I plan to use a 700r4 trans. This was posted before in somebody else's thread - it was suggested to me to start a new one. Thanks to Squirrel and F&J for earlier answers. I have lurking in the forum and have a few questions: 1) Several guys have changed to 5 lug wheels from 6 lug. Why? I am especially concerned since I found/ordered some 6 lug Wheel Vintiques wheels and bought new tires. I want to have disk brakes up front (at least), but had assumed that a later model hub would work. 2) I assume my front end needs to be rebuilt. In addition to disk brakes, I want power steering and a sway bar. Short of buying an aftermarket hub-to-hub setup, is there a clean way to accomplish the above? Somebody appears to have hacked at the lower control arms, but I'm not sure what is missing (see picture below) 3) I am pretty sure that I am missing the coil springs for the rear end. Are there brackets that I am also missing? Are the other springs "helper" springs or was the truck equipped with both originally? 4) I assume I have the original rear end. I would prefer to go with discs on the rear, but don't want the head trauma of replacing the rear end. OTOH, I don't want to wish I had made a better choice later. I found a 69 rear end with discs - would it fit? I assume I would need to convert to leaf springs? I am hoping I can get some general guidance. I am not afraid to spend a few bucks making it right, but I am not thinking show car - just something I can drive and be reasonably proud of. Thanks in advance Dave
that looks like the original rear. The 63 rear is different than later trucks, although you can swap in a later rear if you cut off your panhard bracket, and weld it to the new rear. Front disks...the deal is that Chevy went to 5 lug AND disk brakes in 1971, they only made 6 lug disk brakes on 4x4 trucks (in the 1963-1987 series trucks, which are all pretty much the same chassis design). I know there is a 6 lug disk conversion for 59 and older trucks, but I don't know if there is for the later ones like yours. I don't see any reason to add disk brakes to the back of the truck....maybe there is, but it's not really pertinent to the more traditional way of doing things, that we like here on the hamb. I've never swapped any of my old trucks over to disk front brakes, and I've been driving old drum brake Chevy trucks with big blocks in them since the late 70s. Maybe I'm nuts. You are indeed missing your rear coil springs, and the clamps. Also, a Suburban is not a Panel Truck, they are two similar, but different, things. btw welcome to the hamb! and it's good to see you did some research first
Some people change to 5 lug, only because a wheel seems to look more normal with 5 On the other hand, some do the 5 lug swap because they have used the original Chevy truck discs that started in 71. One swap I never tried: A few web posts have claimed that a one year only disc rotor will get you 6 lug. It was said on some posts, to be an 88 C10. Another place said 88 van. Maybe someone will chime in. I would assume there must be aftermarket 6 lug discs for more money. Try ECI maybe Someone lowered that poor truck, and cut the bump stops off. Sway bars came out maybe 64-66 ish, but so much easier to find on 71/71. most all had them. Take every part off the 71/72 and it fits perfect. Heavier bar is on the c20s if you prefer. P/S has nothing at al to do with a later front end, because the P/S box bolts to the frame. Most people buy the Rez mounting kit. I never did, I had my own spacers and patterns to drill the frames. P/S boxes changed to new metric O-ring fittings on the pressure hoses maybe 82-ish. Get a pump that matches the fitting style if on a budget, to avoid adapter fittings or custom hoses. Pump brackets: Find out if you have short or long sbc water pump. It is sbc? Anyways, pumps/brackets need to come from a like donor with same water pump offsets. If short pump, cars till 68-9? or trucks thru 72 on sbc's. That's a rare set of helpers. I never saw a set besides mine on my 63 that came from the oil fields in Oklahoma. Those are good ones. Yes, they tossed your coils. Sheesh. Looks like a 63 rear because of integral gears, but still has a weld on P-bar bracket on RT tube. Together ,those 2 items make a 63-only detail. Sadly, the axle shafts are one year. Nothing will fit besides 63. and repair bearings made for peeling bearing surfaces on newer C10 axles will not fit. Poor gear ratios in 63 unless it was A/T rear. Best swap for 6 lug: a later 70s thru 87 K10 4x4 rear. Swap on the 63 perches, a P-bar bracket. Look for gear ratios on those. Early 70s tend to be higer 3;00's, but later 70s saw lower 3's and some even lower I think. I ended up with 276, but i may have used 4x4 axles in a 2wd rear. Did too many to recall. Rear discs are just not needed. Avoid, Period. Front discs are not needed IF you add a P/B booster, AND not hauling huge loads on bad hills, or heavy trailers, and have good drums that are not oversized to prevent full shoe contact. A P/B booster on good drums will put you right through the windshield. Those old steel frontend A arm bushings may not take grease if not maintained, but once you clean them out, they outperform the later rubber bushed a arms. They will hold an alignment forever, unlike the rubber ones. Don't do parallel leafs; these coil trucks ride sweet if you keep them out of the dirt with the lowering stuff. That basic rear suspension is still used today on Nascar ...not too shabby for 52 year old design?..at over 200 mph Some is repeat of Squirrels post,. I type one finger, and sometimes wave it to other drivers as well. J/K, I take life easier now Proper name is Suburban Carryall. Awesome trucks as far as usefullness.
As far as I know Chevy vans are 5 lug (G10, G20) or 8-lug (G30), I've yet to see one with six lug wheels. But, some of the front end parts on a G30 go all the way back to mid-60s trucks. You could swap in an entire front end from a later truck if you wanted, they unbolt from the frame.
My 63 was in violation as well, I was just trying to stay politically correct. I forgot to say my 63 had a 72 booster, but I kept the single circuit master. I can't recall ever getting into a situation where I felt I needed "more" brakes, and it's hilly here, and I sure hauled a lot of stuff, but I honestly never hauled a trailer on that one. I don't know.......I read it on the internet Is there any chance the 3/4 was a six lug? or the 3/4 van? The different sites I read that on, both made a point about "one year only" ? So was an 88 whatever, a six lug for one year? I've never understood why someone would go through all that work for discs, when they are a bolt-on to the non-disc front ends. The 71/2 is the easiest because it shares the same tierod taper size as the pre 67. But, the 73 up uses a bigger taper for bigger tie rod ends.....but... grab a 3/4 ton centerlink from a pre67 c20, and then the tie rod tapers all fit with no issues. The only time I ever swapped in a complete front end, was on a 60-62, right before the torsion bar style lower ball joints finally got reproduced again. Before that, if you could find a NOS or NORS balljoint, it was huge money and maybe not find a mate for the other side.
manual (new) drums, single pot master, GVW probably around 12k, went thru the Salt River Canyon (central Arizona mountains). Exciting....
All- Thanks for the info. I am always amazed by the detailed info available from the brain trust! I had thought I posted a reply a couple of days ago, but it didn't seem to make it to the site. I think what I distilled from the advice: 1) I should probably go with a new rear end. My panel was a 6 stick setup and the ratio is probably high (numerically). 2) I also need to score some coils and clamps for the rear end. I have seen coil springs for sale and I assume info is available about what the stock spring set up is. Does anyone have a recommendation as to a source for the parts that hold the springs to the frame? 3) I need to replace the lower control arms (at a minimum), so perhaps taking the parts off of a 70/71 might be easiest (which would also give me a sway bar, I hope). 4) I believe there is a 6 lug disc conversion for the front, so I will plan to go with that. Anybody see any problems with this logic? Thanks
I have a pair of the clamps that hold them to the trailing arms, but I guess I didn't save the upper clamps. Have you found one? you might want to make sure one is available before you get too far.
I believe CPP in Anahiem has the 6 lug kit also you can get parts at The Truck Shop in Orange. Both places have stock springs and lowering springs......oh yea there's Brothers truck parts in Corona?. The stuff that's panel and burb only is harder to come by, but there's an ad in the San Diego craigslist for panel/burb parts. Also They do make swaybar kits for yours, you just need to drill some holes (I have the front and rear for my panel). http://www.classicperform.com/Store/1960_1972_Chevy_Truck/6062SWBK5OE.htm http://www.classicperform.com/Store/1960_1972_Chevy_Truck/RCS603S.htm If your going with a 700r4 stick with the stock 6 rear end, you'll have enough o/d for the freeway and enough low end for towing. I'm about 2200 to 2300rpms at about 68mph, my moms '94 1/2 ton is at 2200 at 70mph. I would spend the money elsewhere, unless you want the 5 lug then do both front and rear at the same time. BTW I have a '64 panel with a 230 6cyl, a later 60's car 3spd o/d trans, stock rear and 4 wheel stock drum brakes. I've been daily driving it since 2005 or so, the only thing I did to the brakes was convert to a dual chamber master (almost a direct bolt on).
i don't recall the exact years, but chevy made some light duty 3/4 ton pickups and suburbans in the late eighties, early nineties that were two wheel drive w/6 lug hubs, they will fit on earlier spindles but i believe they have metric studs
Thanks to all for some great ideas and links! 1OldTimer's panel looks very cool - very close to what I want to end up with. I did find a clamshell door set that I think I will try to install. Need to find the sheetmetal mounting points tho. Thanks again. I feel like I know which direction I am heading now.
Found a '71 front end - complete. I think this solves the damaged lower control arm, missing/broke spring and sway bar problem, but I suspect it is 5 lug. I confirmed with CPP that a 6 lug disc will fix that problem. Exciting!
Not sure. I am hoping to see it today. I want to go with a PS box. Is it a big problem if it isn't there?
What the hell did the PO do with that rear suspension?!!!! Those are factory overload springs that were "bolted" to some random place and rub on the trailing arms. WTF do people do with these things!!!!!You are missing your rear coils. You can see the hole in the trailing arm and the upper mount on the frame. You need the coil spring retainers and springs.I may still have a set of factory rear springs you could have.
Cool! I think the PO was going for the "I've killed it" look Got the 71 front end. It's dirty (and heavy), but it looks like it will do the trick for the front end. I do need to find a PS box. This will keep me busy for a week or two !
Btw, the overload springs are connected to the frame with a couple of big U bolts on each side. Inside the frame are blocks of wood, presumably intended to keep the frame rails from collapsing. Do you think the wood was factory? I had thought I might box the frame in that area - but that was before I found out I am supposed to have coils!
Dave, I went from barn doors to clam shell on my '65 Suburban. I was lucky to find a guy who wanted to swap. The advice I got was make sure you get all of the parts associated with each. I got everything for the clam shell but the valance piece below the doors. I wound up just cutting notches in the panel door valance where the lower hinges protrude. Everything works well, just doesn't look as factory if I had the correct valance. The high wear parts are the upper clam supports. Make sure you find those as that upper door is pretty heavy and nowadays type gas lifters ain't gonna work.
There is no need to box the frame. Remove that crap, throw it in the scrap pile and move on. This was NOT a factory done thing. The overloads actually mounted directly to the frame, back behind the axle and faced forward. I believe there was a brack on the trailing arm that hung off the back and allowed the springs to contact a pad when you had enough load to engage them. I know the trucks were done this way but I am not sure if Panels/Burbs had them because the frame is different behind the axle compared to the trucks. This is why a truck hitch won't work on a Panel/Burb.BTW, let me know if you want a set of stock rear springs. Free... if I still have them.
BTW, you DO NOT need to swap the whole crossmember. Swap the steering parts and the arms/spindles. They all bolt on. If you current arm bushings are in good shape and you need to replace the ball joints, you can just put in new '71 style ball joints in your current arms and just use the spindles and steering parts. Much less work!!!!
Also, not to pull you from the HAMB but if you want the most complete site regarding 60-72 Chevy/GMC trucks/burb/panels, this site has about all the info you could ever dream of needing. Check it out if you haven't. I linked to the 60-66 area.http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/forumdisplay.php?f=6
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