ok guys ive spent the past 2 hrs searching on here for an idea on this, but came up empty. heres what i have. 1954 chevy 4 door that im chopping right now. i have a 3spd with the overdrive i want to run that is from 1968. i know what i would need to run this trans with a 235 but what would be the better "bang for the buck". i currently have no motor, but i do have a 235 and a 250 lined up. 250 is a running driving engine. are these engines roughly the same lengths? i think this is a question a lot of people are curious about. what different mods do you need to do to fit the 230 generation motor in one of these. im assuming the 292 is same length as the 20 but taller, if im wrong this infor would help out too. thanks guys.
the 235 will be much less work for you as it's a bolt in and cheaper if it's a runner. With the 250 you will have to remove the torque tube and rear end, swap for another drive shaft and rear end. I used a nova 10bolt in mine. new trans in in order so you have the option of staying with manual or going with an automatic. My swap was for a 350 but dealt with the same issues. I can't say about motor mounts though but I know that there has been a few 250 swaps done so somebody will chime in
not so much worried about the rearend swap seeings how its needed to run my trans that i have. more along the lines of what all is needed to be done to make it fit. if its worth changing to a 250. if i go the 250 route im going to have to sell my dual carb intake i have for a 235. not a big deal though.
This build thread might help http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=588464&highlight=250+54+chevy
Front side mounts and shorten the waterpump shaft a few inches and run a shorter pulley off a V8. At least that is what I had to do to put the 250 in my 48 pickup. The 250 doesn't mind buzzing along at freeway speeds for hours on ends and if you have a good one they are dead nuts reliable as long as you take care of it. I ran the one that I have in the 48 until it was way beyond worn out with way over 200K on it as it had 95 K when I when I pulled out of a 74 Ventura and stuck it in the 48.
The 292 is taller, and the damper is longer (they stick out more at the front), and the mount on one side is moved forward a few inches from where it is on the 250, but the mount on the other side is in the same place as the 250. If the car is mainly a custom, and you're not gonna be showing off the motor, but you want to run a six for whatever reason, then the 250 is probably the way to go. If you care about how traditional the engine looks, then you need to go with the 235. It's up to you're priorities
For what it is worth--a 250 piston and rod will interchange with the small journal 327 -and the 230 piece will fit the 283 piece
I am aware of things being interchangeable from 230 family and the v8. This is the kind of info t hough I'm looking for. Keep it coming guys. General info on these 2 six families are good info as well. I do have everything clutch and bell housing from a 283. Do these parts interchange also between six and v8?
The clutch, bellhousing, flywheel, starter stuff all interchanges between the 1963 up "late" model six and the 55-up V8. The only exception I know of is the later 292 used a different flywheel with 3 dowels and larger bolts.
Make that a 307 piston for the 250; you're gonna have fun trying to put a 4 inch piston in a 3.875 bore.
I know this thread is old, but it still is worthwhile mentioning the pros and cons of a 235 vs 250. I had a '59 235 that was having problems recently after a rebuild. I was seriously considering a 250. Lucky for me the engine rebuilders supported their warranty and my car is in there shop right now as the new rebuild is getting finished up. But, if this *new* rebuild doesnt cut the mustard, Ill be swapping in a 250 with no questions asked. After I wrote up the following list, it would be foolish to choose the 235 over the 250. 235 pros: Fits perfectly Exhaust already fitted Looks cool, period correct Motor - trans combo works 235 cons: No long freeway trips Loud valve train Parts are rare and expensive Repair shops and mechanics are few Oil pressure is poor Solid lifter - only option Adapters needed for any other trans 3 speed can not be rebuilt Trans adapter alone is $200 Under powered No hop up ignition available Starters are hard to find No performance oil filtering 4 main caps Special zinc additive oil is recommended 250 pros: Powerful Parts are plentiful and inexpensive Repair shops and mechanics are plentiful Many speed parts 7 main caps Quiet valve train Modern hydraulic lifters Full pressure oil system Modern full flow oil filter Uses regular, average priced oil, found anywhere 4 barrel intake options Better water jacket block cooling Very similar dimensions as a 235 Long freeway trips are possible Possibility of 45-60 PSI oil pressure No adapter plates needed, all SBC & BBC manual or auto trans will bolt on HEI coil distributor option 250 cons: New motor mounts need to be fabbed New trans mount needs to be fabbed Radiator either needs to be pushed out or remove fan blade from water pump and install electric fan on radiator Clutch fork will need custom fab Different drive line needed Nova rear end need (Either engine choice will require either a 4 or 5 speed or automatic, a Nova rear end and a driveline if prolonged freeway speeds are desired. The drivetrain swap will be required for the 250, and highly recommended for the 235) 　 　 　
There's a lot to it, isn't there? One minor disagreement....the 250 isn't something that modern repair shops are set up to deal with. It has a carb, distributor, etc. There's no where to plug in a computer diagnostic machine. So I think it might be more of a draw in that respect.
True Squirrel, I agree. Modern shops that deal in post '85 cars probably wouldnt deal with it. But I didnt say a modern shop, I said "Repair shops and mechanics are plentiful". I should have said, "Mechanics that have diagnosed and repaired the 250 are more plentiful than ones that work on the old 235's." The 250 ran from 1966 to 1984. 2 years shy of a 20 year streak!! Wow! The timing marks and location, oil filter, lifters, rockers, starters, most torq settings and ignitions are all simular to a SBC. Im just saying, anyone that can work on a carbureted V8, would have little problem diagnosing and tuning up a 250 due to all the simular components. The 235 hasnt been around since the early 60's, and theres not alot of guys runnin 6's, especially the older stuff.
I guess so. Although I really never noticed much difference at all doing minor tune up type work on a 235 or a 250. You don't have to adjust the valves on a 250, that's one noticeable difference.
While I agree with some of this stuff, I do take issue with what I have highlighted. I drive my 235 powered car long distances on the interstate all the time. It cruises just fine at 65-70mph. When adjusted properly, the valvetrain is no louder than any other pushrod engine. I didn't realize parts were rare and expensive... I just rebuilt a 235 for less than $300, using parts available over the counter at napa and advance auto. Seriously? If you're driving a 60 year old car, you need to be doing your own work. Repair shop availability is not an issue. Solid lifters are not the only option, powerglide cars and all 53+ engines have factory hydraulic lifters. These are easy to obtain and fit solid lifter cars with no modifications. They are underpowered in stock form, but with a corvette cam, truck head, HEI conversion, dual or triple carburation, and dual exhaust, they are very peppy. For the "hopped up ignition", a 250 HEI distributor (including perfromance units from MSD, etc.) drops right in with a few modifications. 12v starters are easy to come by online, for around $100.
To clarify, you can't put hyro lifters in a pre '58 235 if it didn't have them to begin with as the lifter bores aren't cross drilled for oiling. '58-62 blocks are all cross drilled. I wouldn't recommend using hydros in a 235. They have a bad habbit of bleeding out and hammering at sustained rpms. Sometimes they work, most times they don't. No reason to press down the hub on the 250 water pumps. The 2 groove SBC and L22 pulleys are the same depth. If already planning on converting to an open driveline, the only real advantage a 235 has is it takes less modifications to install (depending on year of 235 block. some require more mods than others). Motor mounts to install the 250 into a pre-'55 Chevy are available. The radiator will be a tight fit, but it can be moved forward. Don't forget to trim the hood brace. I make a part that will correct for the fork angle change that happens when you use a bellhousing other than a '49-54 car version in a '49-54 car.
It is possible to bolt a 250 six to a 1954 and earlier drivetrain if you have the right transmission case. There was one that was drilled the same as the 55 up trans, it was used from 1941 to 1954 and is often found in pickup trucks, although some were used in cars. The guts of the trans will interchange. So if you have the right trans case you can bolt up a 55 and later bellhousing which will fit a 55 up V8 or 63 up six.
All your points are valid! Remember, Im not bashing 235's! I think theyre rad and Im running one right now. I was COMPAIRING the 235 to the 250, pro's and con's against each other so I could choose the correct engine for my car. Also, Im not wanting to ruffle any feathers here either, its just car talk. In response to your response: With your 235, what transmission and rear end are you running to cruise 65-70? Ive never heard a quiet 235 valvetrain. In fact they sold thick walled valve covers back in the day, the selling line was to quiet the valvetrain sounds. Read the Popular Mechanics June 1953 issue, they wrote a review on the NEW belair. So many people complained of the noisy valvetrain. Brand new!! haha! I was doing a 235 VS 250 pro and con list. I dont mean that 235 are rare and expensive, but compaired to a 250, the parts are more rare and more expensive. Oil filters, oil filter feed lines, starter solinoids, water pumps, timing chain covers, oil pans, fuel pumps. I had problems locationg these at my local part stores, where the 250 stuff was hanging on the wall. And the 250 stuff was a few dollars cheaper too! Im not sure what kind of rebuild you did, whether it was rings, bearing and seals or a full over haul. But compairing prices I found online: 235 Basic Rebuild=$600, Master Rebuild= $850 250 Basic Rebuild= $250, Master Rebuild= $350. Seriously? (haha!) It was an issue for me. I do work on my own stuff, thank you. After scratching our heads, having friends over, other mechanics over AND asking old time inline gurus at an inliners international meeting what was going on... I needed to take it to a shop with a dyno to find out what was going on. Some times you cant do everything and you need a mechanic with special machines and tools I dont have. ALSO, there was only ONE shop in town that would do the machine work on my 235 block. I dont have the tools or machines to do line honing, decking or boring. Exactly, 53+ did come with hydraulic lifters and you can put them in a solid block if the passage ways are cross-drilled from the factory. Problem is, many have complained theres no good hydraulic lifters made today that are worth the effort. They bleed down at normal hiway speeds, or even sitting over night and they limit RPM drastically. In my book thats not an option or upgrade, when compairing it to a 250. I agree that a 235 can be very fast! The Inliners International have a rail that kicks ass! It was just at the oldies drags at Woodburn last weekend. Ive been reading my 235 hop up books and know of all the awesome things you can do to them. But I was compairing stock engine to stock engine. The 250 has more power. Its reasonable to assume if you hopped them both up equally, the 250 would still have more power. The 250 HEI is an acuarate point. Ive read up on that and it would not take much to convert one. When I compair parts available, I like to think about what is available at a parts store in a worst case scenario, not what I can make at home at my leisure. If Im on a long drive out in the country and break down, get towed into the local small town and have to buy parts... what will they have? Worse case scenario, I fry my distributor. If I dont have the work bench and tools to covert a 250 unit, then what? They wont have a 235 distributor, thats guarenteed. This was also part of my point with 235 parts being more rare and expensive than 250 parts. I could literally buy a stock (or HEI) distributor for the 250 at almost any parts store. Or at least have luck in a junkyard of finding something that would work. 12V starters are easy enough to find. I had to have one special ordered through Baxter Auto. Even then I had to custom fab up mounts on the solinoid so it would bolt to the starter. I had ONE choice of starter and had to special order it. I could get a mini high-torque starter, stock starter or anything in between for the 250 all night at any parts house. What if a guy hadnt converted to 12V yet?! Whole different ball game with available parts then, right! haha! My whole point of the list was to weigh out pros-cons and compaire the two engines. 235's are awesome, but, if the 235 I have now starts to crap out, Ill swap it for a 250. Its no contest from where Im standin!
only '48-54 1/2 ton truck has the wide bolt pattern and 4 11/16" bearing retainer, but I've not seen one with a rear mount, so you would need to make something up. Fork angle is still going to be wrong in a '49-54 car. I've mated a 250 to the original 3spd in my '53 by using a "421" bellhousing which has the smaller 4 1/4" center hole. I drilled 4 new holes in it and had some slugs welded to it (short explanation). need to use the short throwout bearing as well. Still need to deal with the change in fork angle when doing this.... None of this is relevant when converting to an open driveline, just if you want to use the later six or a V8 with the original driveline.
Very valuable thread with points well stated. The 250 marine 6 in the boat I have to sell off this summer sounds awfully sweet under power and at full cruise. Wish I didn't have to get rid of it, but I have way too much on my plate, especially for a Mopar guy! LOL
Stock powerglide, stock rear end. She'll run 85, but that's screaming along pretty good... I'm sure it wouldn't last long at that speed. 65-70 is no problem though. And, as much as I love the little 235, there is a 292 on the stand being built right now. I'm wanting to make around 300 horses, and the oil-sling lubrication on the 235 scares me. Plus I'm converting to an open rear and a complete drivetrain swap with modern overdrive trans is about the same cost as adapters to keep the stock driveline (nova donor car was $300).
Over the topic vehicle but I have a l6 250 that came out of a 67 chevy c10 stepper and is in my 67 chevy c10 lwb. It is backed up with a th350. Love these inline engines. I want to learn as much on these 235/250/292 as I can. I will never own anything newer than 72. So I prefer inline over v8.
leave the old 235s for the period correct crowd...if you want any kind of performance, the 250 is the way to go...even better is the 292 six....remember this: except for forced induction (superchargers and turbochargers) more cubic inches are your best friends...the 292s trump the 235s every time !!
While you'll never win the Summernationals with a 235, I see no reason that it shouldn't be just as reliable as any other engine. If you start with a '53 PG or any '54-'62 engine, you've got aluminum pistons, insert rod bearings, and a fully pressurized oiling system. People start out with an engine that's already next door to dead and, when it fails after having the piss run out of it, decide that "them old engines just ain't reliable in the long run". Even with the stock 3.70 rear, I've run my '53 at 65-70 mph for hours on end.
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