I have a friend in the neighborhood that is cleaning out the garage, so naturally I go to shoot the bull. Well low and behold, 2 complete Saggy 4spds, a 3spd and a pile of HiPo SBC heads and God knows what else. I know about Muncies (well as far as hearing of them) but nothing about these 4 speeds. I was told to "Take 'em" . Are these pretty tough trannys? I have to rethink my drivetrain now, nothin like a 4 spd. Gabe
If you dont get them I will take them for you. The are good trannys and for the price the are great. As lond as you aint putting alot horsepower 300+ on them you will be fine. I have seen them on bif engines with no complaints. Overall though they will be fine but yes if you had a chance between a saginaw or a muncie you would take the muncie, but you would also take a Super T-10 over a Muncie. I am running a saginaw in my 34 truck.
I might be interested in one of those, I've got a 3sp saginaw in my 53 chevy and would like to have an extra gear. Farmall
I think they are just heavier than muncies and possibly have closer ratios depending on what they came out of. If they are from trucks expect first gear to be steep/granny. Something special about the ones out of vegas too, but I can't remember what.
I like the old saginaws. They are a good tranny, perhaps not a roadrace tranny but I've had good luck with 'em.
LIght duty trans. For a light vehicle with a small tire they are fine. They are mostly very wide ratio with a real deep first gear.
A friend of mine has a saginaw 4 speed behind a 350 or so horse motor. He's just using it until he gets his m22 put in, but he drives it like a mad man and its held up so far...about a year now. The low gearing sure woke the car up too, until he put 411's in the rear, now it has too much gear.
In the past I have had both Muncie and Borg Warner 4 speeds, both are good transmissions, with many different models to chose from over the production years. I also had a Saganaw in a Vega, had a sleeved block, 140 H.P. head, header etc., I always felt like the gear box was inferior to the others but I bought a new Competition Plus Hurst for it and beat it to death without any problems............................a few years later I ran one in my Forty Ford behind and average SBC, again no problems. I would agree with a prior post, they are not indestructable behind a high horse power engine, but they are adequate. Weekend before last I wandered around the swap meet area at Goodguys Columbus, I noticed a guy that had a large selection of OEM shifters, some that were pretty scarce. He also had a number of Hurst shifters and two that were set up on Saganaw 4 speeds. He wanted $500 for the trannys with shifters! I'd say, if they are free, you better jump all over them. They are all cast iron, which obviously makes them heavier, the truck someone mentioned, I don't ever recall a granny gear Saganaw or even one that they used in a General Motors truck?????
im glad this post is out there.. i just picked up a 3 speed saginaw from the swap meet yesterday.. it used to sit behind a 348. Can you guys spread some info on these as well?I dont mean to hijack but maybe we could make this into a little tech info on these transmissions
They are a decent tranny that came behind 4 (Chevette/Vega included) & 6cyl and lower performance V8's including Camaros. There are 5 ratios that Im aware of but dont have specs for the 3.50 1st gear one. 3.75, 3.50, 3.11, 2.85, 2.54 SAGINAW (4spd.) 3.75 2.16 1.38 1.00 SAGINAW (4spd.) 3.11 2.20 1.47 1.00 SAGINAW (4spd.) 2.85 2.02 1.35 1.00 SAGINAW (4spd.) 2.54 1.80 1.32 1.00
the Saginaw 4 speeds seem to recently have become worth some $$$...I tried to buy one last week from a guy in town, he wanted $450 for it! Last ones I sold a few years ago I let go for $150 each. so I looked on epay...yup, they're worth a few hunnerd nowadays. A friend has had a Sag 4 speed in his 64 pickup behind a 396 for a couple decades, no problem, but back when I had one in my truck behind a similar engine I wore out synchros every few months. Something about leaving the go pedal on the floor while shifting, I think.
Great tranny's especially for the money.. Saginaw 4-speed 1st 2nd 3rd 4th No lines (grooves) 2.84 2.01 1.35 1.00 1 Line (groove ) 2.54 1.80 1.44 1.00 2 Lines (grooves) 3.11 2.20 1.47 1.00 3 Lines (grooves) 3.50 2.47 1.65 1.00 easy to tell what you have by the grooves ont he input shaft...
Sweet Zman, I'll check both mine to see what I have and use the lowest one. I've got one from a Camaro and one from a Vega. Think the Camaro one might be a little stronger, but who knows.
The 2.54 1st came behind stuff like 283's and mild 327's. The 3.50 1st came behind the four cyl Vega's. Pat Dykes, of Patrick's Automotive, likes the 3.11 1st trans for early Chevy inlines, due to the consistant spacing between the gears, means less RPM drop between shifts.
they should be the same strength, but the Vega tranny should have the extra steep gears in it...not so good for a drag type car, but nice for a small motored cruiser with highway gears.
If used in a 58 olds wagon with a 600 HP 502 bigblock Id say no- but in a lighter car with say 350HP or less they are a great basic tranny..Id spend any mone saved by buying one on a BETTER SHIFTER.....the stock Saginaw shifters are for grannys in no hurry.....these trans' are a damn good buy for sure.!!.
I have had a few of them my self.One was in an old Nova that I ragged the shit out of as a teenager ,and regularly smoked the clutch on but never hurt the tranny.The other was in a half ton truck that i pulled hevy ass trailers with frequently and it never gave me any trouble.Most people that run them down are Muncie fans ,that dont use enough of their motor anyway ,to tear up a tranny from a Honda.As far as a muncie being indestructible its a crock.Put me in the drivers seat and i'll tear out any gear you like.
Don't throw too much horsepower at 'em, and run a skinny tire they are fine. They'll last forever behind a Flathead.
468 BBC + 265 section width tire + Big Wagon + lead foot + close ratio saginaw = no "boom" yet (knock on wood) Maybe it all depends upon if you have good/bad karma.
I've had a bunch of them.. I had a 79 malibu with a factory 4 speed a while ago. I did up a stout 283 for it, and proceeded to blow the shit out of 3 of them, well, one was a 3 speed.. Now, i was not at all easy on it, so i would have to say that would be the reason i was having issues. One of them, i actually snapped the shift fork off inside the case. My shifter was in second, but the car was in first..I was kinda hard on it... That car was not light, and i had a tendancy to pull first to second upwards of 8000 rpm..sometime's touch more... I have had one in my coupe for the past 7 years, with the same motor i had in the malibu..except i put a blower on it about 5 years ago. I'm not as hard on it now as i was in the other car, but i have my moments.. NO problem's yet with the trans...i've messed a clutch or two up pretty good though Note, the coupe dosn't hook for shit, so there's not as much stress on the trans as before either. I have three 4 speeds, and two 3 speeds left, all Sag's ( i used to buy them whenever i could fine one)...I used to pay between 50 and 75 bux for them back 10-12 years ago. The one in the car now is a two groove unit. I think the life of one in a car depends on a few thing's.. - Horspower & Torque - Ability to 'hook' - Weight of the car - State of mind of the driver....(if you beat the shit out of it, sooner or later it's gonna say "seeya". this one holds true for lots of things) When it come's right down to it, i highly doubt you'll have a problem if your driving it sorta normal, with the occasional 'screwing around' we all do. The Karma thing might have something to do with it too
This post is right on the money. I recently picked up a Hurst Indy 4spd shifter (freebie) and a Sag. 4spd tranny ($75.). Will the shifter work with this tranny or does it have to be specifically for a Sag.?
They seem to be more accepted now than they were 25 years ago. I do remember there being some issue on connecting the speedo cable if you put a decent shifter on. I think many of the stock shifters were actually bolted to the floor which may have contributed to the poor rep the trannys had. I never ran one but I do know the 3 speed saggys are indestructable.
Donzie, the only difference with the shifters is the mounting bracket and the shifter rods. Mr Gasket has mounting kits for most trannies yet. jerry
I was told to "Take 'em" . Gabe[/QUOTE] Do you use some kind of jedi mind powers or something to get people to give you all this free stuff? You've been racking it up lately. Yet another good score. Maybe Gabe IS Good!
summit sells the installation kit, about a hundred bucks, less than half of a new shifter, and includes mounting plate, rods, and shift levers. you'll need one specifically for the hurst though. they'll ask for the application, just tell 'em 77 camaro.
Here's another little bit of info for those interested. The Sag. tranny's tail shaft is flat on the drivers side, so if you want to get the shifter forward, you can buy an instalation kit for a 78-87 "G" body malibu/elcamino. The kit come's with a plate to move the shifter to the front side of the housing toward's the main body of the trans itself. Probably about 6 or 7 inch's..i can't remember exactly. In the G body, if the shifter was to mount in the 'typical' location, it would have come through the front part of the bench seat, but with the kit it brought it up to where it belonged, in front of the seat. This way IF you have clearence issue's with the seat, this may move it forward enough to help that out. I used the shifter from my Mali in my '32 as well...and it worked great. Just a little info for those who might need it sometime. Tony
I have blown up lots of saginaws. I moved to a Super T10 with a 904 nodular iron case with a swapped in 2.64 high nickle gearset. No boom yet, even behind the turbo SBC.
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