Thought I'd post a few more pictures of that oil pump and how it was set up on that Ford motor. I didn't get the mag with it so I threw in a sub. The pump is different than the one on the S/G car but the mounting flange looks the same. A later model Jewett?? At the same swap meet I saw a 490 roadster that had a pump about a third the size mounted to the timing cover. I took pictures with my phone but forgot to save them. Was that setup stock? The car was a '23?? and had quarter elliptic springs front and rear. Norm
Here's some more pics of the Jewett pump & fab'd cover, in the pile of parts for this project there was a stock sheetmetal cover with a brazed on mounting flange for a pump. Also a cast aluminum cover that drove the oil pump off the end of the generator at crankshaft speed, must have given them plenty of oil!!!! Pat
Norm- The early Chev 4's did have an external oil pump. The internal pump started in '26 with the mid-block distributor drive. Early pumps were gear, some or all with crappy diecast housing. Internal pumps cast are iron, but a vane affair that only develops enough pressure- <5 psi- to lift the oil up to the "oil distributor" and later the filter also. All 490's, named for the selling price to try to compete with the model T Ford, had quarter epileptic springs. In my opinion--and the Ford guys jump all over me when they hear this -- the Chevy 4's were a better car engineering wise than the T, but the T had FAR superior material--in every respect. Herb
Hi all I've been away for a while. Each time I need a pick me up I come out and look at your stuff. I am still fascinated by this oil pump. In my opinion it is too large for what I need, then I saw it in the article about Rufi's speedster. On my engine there was no relief valve so it twisted the drive off to the cam. This engine will be green when done. I still worry if I would use the rods that came in this engine, the three port head is long gone, so it will be a 27 - 28 head like the one in the car. What do you think of my headers, LOL. Can you see the lifers, and the cam has a lot of use but the pistons never were fired on! Wish I knew the story on this engine. Have fun, Dave PS: The mag is hot PSS: I owned a 1919 490 Chevy, and was a member of the Long Beach Model T Club, and yes there was no competition it would out perform in every way just don't jump on the running boards they would stay down, the T would spring back. I still have a lot of parts for the car.
Egor- That's a '28 head on an earlier block. The '28 head and block castings were one year only deal. Never could figure why Chevy went to all the trouble with the change, when they knew that the six would be used the next year--Then again, might be that they weren't sure--the story is that they had planned the six for '28, with the stretched frame and hood, and then the engine wasn't ready. Wish that someone would do a definitive book on all the pre '29 fours--but then it would be a work of love--probably wouldn't sell enough copies. Herb
I'd love to see that. The twenties are probably my favorite period of automotive history, and severely underrepresented in the history books. Chevrolet division is rather notorious for its failure to keep its records around.
And the net result is - "We have no record of that", said in the same tone of - " I have no memory of that" when testifying in front of Congress. Really enjoying this thread. Need to get the kids in gear on Bill's parts.
Ran into '27 Pontiac engine the other day and remembered the discussion about the '36 Pontiac rods. Anyone know if the '27 rods are the same? Norm
In your first post, you stated that you had a 28 truck motor. I am sure you have a Chev truck, 4 spd trans and the little lever on the side of the shifter is to be pulled up for reverse. When pulled up, the stick will go farther left and back for reverse. I think Chevy quit that in about 1946. I drove 28 Chevys to school in the late 40s and 50. Good Luck on your 28 project.
I am pretty dumb on computers. I answered your post and I don't know where it went. Anyway-----I think you have a Chev 4 spd trans and the little lever on the shifter is the reverse lever. Lift that and the shifter will go farther left and back for reverse. I think they had that till about 1946.
Herb - I got the whole outfit in one piece, that dosnt mean that someone could have put the head on there. How do you tell the year of the frame? It could be a 28. I got the whole rolling chassis for 100 bucks, engine runs good. The 29 Ford body does not fit too good the best would be to narrow the frame down in the rear but that would mean cutting every cross member. I also have a 28 ford front end to install the axle on there is for a 24 Chevy no brakes. Have fun, Dave PS: Does the 27 have only one exhaust port?
Dave Yes--'27 and before heads had only one exhaust port, and were notorious for cracking (from pouring cold water into an overheated engine? don't know). '28 was the only year four that had front brakes--and was a longer wheelbase frame--I don't have the two numbers for wheelbase in my head--my brain hard drive is getting soft-- but I can look the numbers up if they will do you any good. Other than that, I really can't tell you how to identify the earlier frames as to years, don't know that much about them. The first frames were for the 490 model, named for it's price--built to compete with the Ford model T. They had quarter-epileptic springs (one end fastened to chassis, the other end fastened to axle) which stuck out on a slight angle from the corners of the frame. Last year for this (I THINK!) was '23, but again, I would have to check. Herb
Herb I guess the tattle tale is the front brakes. My frame was missing the front axle and I found an early one and installed it, so I now know that it is a 28. It is curios that the 28 head is a one year only. I Have three of these heads and only one single port, and it is cracked. I had a 490 and the head I have came off the car, I bought the engine that is painted green just for the head, the one on there works just leaks if it is cold. I wondered why the radiator was so far from the engine in my frame, that tin piece in front is big enough to use as a dining room table. I was trying to figure a way to use just rear brakes, and I could do it but it has a balancing mechanism built in to make the front and rear stopping equal. It will work good if I use the Ford front end. This project has been languishing unfinished from 1978, I'm getting old and sometimes think it is time to let someone finish the car. I have been picking parts up for all that time, I can picture it finished and that keeps me from letting it go. My father used to run cars up on the dry lakes here in Cali, in the 40's so I have his old pictures and memories of zooming around in a rumble seat to keep me going but I still have constraints to make it a bit of a struggle to finish. I still have some 490 parts to an engine I would like to see go to a good home, they were hard to find and never got installed on the car, the guy who got the car I knew didn't care, I was worried that he would not take care of it, but it had to go we needed groceries, times were tough then. I have the square starter, generator, and the front tin that holds the oil pump out front for 19 and earlier. I still have the pedals with the hooking bit they used for the holding brake and perfect rear drums. The rear brakes were hooked into the clutch pedal. Thanks for the information it is funny I didn't figure it out earlier, knew about the 28 missing the six I just didn't dawn on this old guy. Have fun, Dave
Chev chassis ID's 1924 and earlier had 24 quarter eliptic springs - easy to id. 1925 had a cast engine mount cross member, half eliptic springs here onwards 1926 all cross members are pressed steel 1927 slightly higher curve over rear axle than 1925 & 26 but same length, cross member between bell housing and gear box. no fuel gauge hole in rear cross member 1928 cross member between bell housing and gear box, first year to have two holes in rear cross member for fuel gauge, 4 inches longer that 25-27, additional holes for front brake fittings, front brakes etc .
Not sure its that so much as the living embodiment of History is more or less bunk...We want to live in the present and the only history that is worth a tinker's damn is the history we made today. Until recently, Chevrolet was more concerned with volume and the appearance of moving forward than with its history - and had a habit of reusing part and drawing numbers and purging the records every so often. Pontiac, on the other hand, kept excellent records until its demise, which would sort of argue against plausible deniability as corporate policy at General Motors. I wish VCCA.org had more historical discussion. Its mostly technical over there, with people trying to keep their obsolete Chevrolets running and seemingly little regard for the history. Its a big contrast with the Model T boards and was quite disappointing.
Dave - There are two reasons why there so many '28 heads surviving- First- they weren't prone to cracking Second- when the older heads cracked, agencys sold the '28 head as a replacement. This gave the owner a few more HP, as the valves were larger, and the rocker arms were 1 1/2 to 1--which opened the valves farther. All the earlier heads had 1 to 1 rockers--including the three exhaust port "Oldsmobile" head, also used on the Chevy 224cid engines the last year of their production ('23?) I found that the equalizing mechanism for the front/rear brakes on the '28 chassis is detrimental to good stopping. It is adjustable, to a certain extent, to vary the ratio of front to rear braking force-- problem is, that it was designed to apply the rear brakes more than the front. Back then, when nearly instantaneous stops were not dictated by traffic, the old wifes tale of "you are going to lock the front wheels" was still thought true--and a car with the front brakes only half working still stopped quicked than rear brakes only. Today, we know that something like 75-80% of a panic stop is due to the front brakes, and the wheels are hard to lock due to the weight transfer onto the front wheels while stopping. I made a tremendous improvement on my '28 by removing one brake cross shaft, and making a double ended arm for the ends of the remaining one. That, plus '33 front brakes (larger, and better shoe actuation) gives much better stopping. Herb Herb
Kume Could you compare the '29 frame to the '28? I'm trying to figure out what frame to use and I do have a rather sad '29 that might work. Norm
Norsonauto I am pretty sure the 28 & 29 are very similar with the exception of the front cross members, I think both are 107 inch wheel base, rails and rear cross member should be the same. Kume
Thanks Herb for all the good information. I will defiantly consider that braking mod if I get this car going again. I had a friend a few years back that got me into the Chevrolet 4's. He was into only the 24 & 25's and had a 25 Mercury bodied car that was the coolest thing I had ever seen, he collected all his cars in the 60's when they were easy to find, and he had a good eye for the one that would be best to save. I was able to help him get all his engines going as he was not fond of the power end of the things. He was the one that found the 28 I have now. The deal was that I had to get it running the same day, he was of the opinion that it would never run in the present condition. I love a challenge and a dare, If I could make it run I could have it for 100 bucks, he was asking a lot more for it than that, it was in pretty good shape except for the front axle. Well you know I got it running as I have it now. I was not allowed to use any extra parts and the engine had been left with the #1 plug out so the piston was stuck, He laughed and said its yours it was running like a clock. He went on to restoring old tractors and I got the job of getting them running, was a lot of fun. I was going to build a speedster but had this 29 Ford body I got from my Dad. Its not the best fit but would make a neat early hotrod. I have a set of 32 ford wheels, and a big old 39 Chrysler steering wheel and gearbox. I do have a Chevy radiator shroud and a Chevy firewall, but that's all. I have a 40 Ford hood I was going to use for a tail if it went to a speedster. I see your speedster in your Avatar, that is good looking. I have one more 28 engine and the two 25's and a bunch of neat old log manifolds from the day I could use in place of the stock 28. Oh and there is a 39 ford flathead engine in there if I need one, but I want the earlier look and sound. I do love the history of these early cars, wish my Dad was still around we had fun. Anything else you would like to suggest would be appreciated. Have fun, Dave PS: Do you have a link to pictures of your speedster?
Hi all It's been a while a lot goin on, here as well good to see Well I got the 28 motor running but when I put water in It leaked out side pipes on 3 an 4 pot . I have been told I Need to pre heat head gasket can someone explain process Please . When we got the 28 goin I put the vid on Utube ( 1928 Chev first start . can I fit a 27 rear diff an tube Springs etc Into a 28 chassis whereis the six inches gained And finally are a 28 an 29 cowl similar in size when Compared to a 27 . Happy tinkering .
1927 rear axle etc should fit into 28 chassis as additional inches are forward of the motor. Brake rod connections are quite different though (28 4 wheel brakes). 27, 28 and 29 cowl are all completely different to each other and not interchangeable if using adjacent tin (doors bonnet etc). Never heard about preheating head gasket - can you clarify where water is coming from. Kume
Is the gasket copper? It's probably a good idea to anneal it (Heat it up until you see a color change, then let it cool down. Softens the metal. This is standard practice on copper o-ring type gaskets in High pressure air compressors. You can anneal a good used one and use it over again. My 2c for the day.
Thanks for the prompt replys to my post Kume the water sprayed out 3 an 4 pot exhaust It seemed like a lot so I'm pullin the head off to crack test it .an thanks to stevie G yes i have original copper gasket I'll be given that a go in about 3 weeks lol . Can anyone tell me when the first year of the front bumper bolts screwing into the squared off ends of the front of the spring hanger . I just picked up a chassis which is very similar to my 31 tourer but the fuel tank cover plate is different . I also read the other day that all the early Chev motor patents went to Toyota has anyone tried early Toyota parts or any thing Happy tinkering
Hello Chevy folks! I've been silent for a while, have been more working with motorbikes. However, last monday I bought a 1937 Ardie motorbike form the estate of deceased. They also had a -28 Chevy project, which was already sold. I saw the parts and they were rather good. Eventually buyer had only taken the best parts and left the rest to be crushed. I spent the whole saturday jacking the skrap metal pile to save as much as possible. I got some pretty good body parts and small details for my project. There was also one cowl from four cylinder Olds. Unfortunately I did not found the head. So, Chevy project moved a little forward for a long while.
This followed me home last week. Took me this long to find out how to take pictures with my new camera and post them with my new computer. Old computer died and old camera wouldn't work with new OS.
The Jalopy Journal
