Who carries PPG in Indiana? I am looking for black epoxy primer and can't find any anywhere. Any car parts stores? Of course in Indiana everything is closed on Sundays... Any help would be appreciated.
I have been using Kirker Epoxy for many many years now. There are many benefits of Kirker compared to others. Anyway, they make a black version as well. I buy it online, every reasonable.
In the way I use it, not even close. Kirker epoxy is a reactive epoxy. It is sandable, so I many times do all my body work and prep in Kirker. It contains no isos, so that it is safer. PPG is not sandable. It is not reactive in it's curing and it costs twice as much. What more reasons?? Seriously, I have been using it exclusively in restorations for 15 years or so. I couldn't be happier. I have been a proponent of Kirker online often. many people have tried and now use it because I got them into it.No one has ever come back and said they didn't like it. It is so easy to use, affordable and it's performance is perfect in my mind.
do yourself a favor and find a jobber that sells PPG's fleet line as well as automotive.. go ask for EPX908 (black epoxy...this is the O.G. DP ) and EPX901 catalyst...you should be able to get a gallon of each for around $110...it's a one to one mix so it gives you two gallons of sprayable primer and it is sandable..but why would you want to sand epoxy anyway..
The reason you or I would want to sand epoxy is because that is what I use to block with. When I say sandable, I mean using it to block with, not jujst scratch it up for a recoat. I'm talking honest to go dry or wet sanding as you normally would do with a urethane primer. The Kirker that I reference has enough body that it fills. A few coats of Kirker and I block my bodywork. Most use a urethane primer for this, but that involves isocyanates. When I spray isos I use a fresh air supply. Therefore its more of a pain to spray materials with isos. By using epoxy, I can wear just a typical respirator. I do spray isos, obviously, but for general primer work, I use Kirker epoxy. That is the big advantage in my mind and I'm sure many of you could find that to be true as well. Give it a try. I practically use no urethane primer, no need. If I want something that is really high build, more than is reasonable with the epoxy, I use polyester primer. Polyester primer, again, no isos. Many times when going that route, I'll sandwhich the polyester primer with epoxy. meaning, I'll spray a coat of epoxy and then wet-on-wet hit it with a few coats of polyester. Do my work with polyester, then hit it again with a few coats of epoxy. I'll block that out then be paint ready. That is how I do all my restos and any work really that needs high build. Most times though, I don't need the super high build of polyester and I spray 3 or so coats of epoxy and block it. Maybe another round of epoxy and then I'll be paint ready, meaning ready for the final sand. I haven't seen any other epoxy that can do what the Kirker can do. I won't sit here and swear there isn't another, but I haven't seen one.
Although it takes time for it to adequately cure, PPG primer is no problem to sand when sufficiently cured. Having done it many times, I can say it is also possible to sand it while still tender, but a light touch, working slow and extremely careful. I agree that the health implications of isocyanates are well documented. Unfortunately, as a result of years of exposure I am sensitized myself. I am not a chemist, but I know isocyanates are used in paint is to enhance polymerization. If what you are using works for you, that's the bottom line for you. I do doubt that your alternative could meet the same performance specs as a product containing isocyanates.
Epoxies do not contain isos. How can you question epoxies?? They are as tried and true as any other material. I have too many cars driving around the roads, in car shows and filling drivways . . whether they are Mustangs, Corvettes, BMWs, whatever, to ever think there is a problem with Kirker epoxy and the way it's used. I think they make a great product.
Sorry, I thought this was an open discussion on an internet forum. I didn't realize this was "your" thread. Maybe some of the responses are off topic, but that's not always bad. If a person is receptive and paying attention there's always a chance of accidentally learning something.
You could save some serious $$$ by using a dry guidecoat for blocking instead of an epoxy--which Kirker product info says is a non-sanding product.....but hey, if it works for you I'm PPG certified, so admittedly my opinion is biased...but it's my understanding there are similar products to DPLF, but no direct substitutes performance-wise. If that makes me an idiot, I guess I'll just hafta be one
Earl you are confused . . a dry coat is to allow you to see your low spots when blocking. I didn't say I didn't use some type of guide coat. But what "material" are you sanding? blocking out?? I'm blocking out the epoxy.I think you are misunderstanding me. As for PPG epoxy. I'm not saying it's a bad material, just not right for me. You can't do all your bodywork with DPLF. If you use it as a DTM primer and use a urethane over it, that's fine. I think most of the world does it that way, no? I'm saying Kirkler epoxy replaces the use of urethane primer. It's all you need . . if you want to go this way. I have been doing it this way for many years and so have many other Kirker epoxy users, that's all.
this is interesting, i did not know there was a epoxy that also filled. i use epoxy first, then a urethane, both different colors this allows me a "heads up" indicator before sanding through to bare metal.
Maybe I am Pete.... I thought you were using the Kirker to block your filler/metal work. Like I said, whatever works for you Not trying to get into a long distance urinating competition I start bare metal covered with DP, and do necessary filler work over the DP. Blocking with 80/100, I powder guide it about halfway thru,finish my 80, then powder it again before blocking with 180. Sandwich the whole mess with DP, then apply a primer-surfacer.Lately, we've been using Omni or Mar-Hyde--doesn't matter much as most of it comes off anyway. Powder and block with 180, then reprime(usually with K38) for finish sanding. In the booth, I like to seal with reduced DP in an appropriate color. Yeah, I spend a little more, but peace of mind from experience is worth it. I think the 6H rule says no spraying outside the booth anything more than 3oz....I believe that's non-specific requirement, iso or non iso, geared toward particulate matter I think.....so I feel like it's worth the extra effort to use an iso product, even if nothing more than from a repairablity standpoint. Years of repairing low cost/marginal quality paintwork and seeing ring failure(shrinkage) made a believer out of me.
yes that is what I am saying, if you use Kirker epoxy you can do all your priming with it, everything. But for example . . let's say I do a bunch of ding repairs on a door as well as a patch welded in ( just did this on a '67 Firebird ). I pulled about 5 dings with a stud puller and ended up with about 8 or 9 areas where I added some amount of filler. Add to that the patch and there was a significant amount of filler on the middle to lower portion of this door. Now, the filler was thin,but still in square inches it was significant. I really could have handled it all with epoxy. I have done this before, but instead choose to use polyester primer. So I laid down a couple coats of Kirker, then a couple of polyester. I did my blocking initially with the polyester primer, getting the door flat and straight. I then followed up with a couple more epoxy coats and at that point it was paint ready. I sanded the epoxy again when it was time to prep for paint. So sometimes, I use something else, but unless you rely too much on primer to do your bodywork for you, the Kirker is all you need. You do have to get the panels flat when doing the filler work, but hey that's what it's all about right? This fender in the picture is all epoxy.There were a few dings repaired as well as a patch welded in the lower corner. No other primer on here than Kirker Epoxy. Not for everyone because you should do what you or your shop is comfortable with. But if you are a weekend warrior and looking for a system that is simple, less material to use.... then give the Kirker a try. It takes a bit long to cure than urethane, but that should only be an issue for collision work. Most restorations have you doing many things, waiting a little longer for it to cure isn't a problem. With heat, it's cured in less than a day, sunlight on a warm day, same thing. So someone doing what they can on the weekends will have no problem working with Kirker.
You are hi-jacking this thread. The original QUESTION pertains to PPG black primer. And throwing some name calling over ego is enough.
The chemistry of epoxy is such that you can spray any epoxy over another epoxy. That should not be a problem. Obviously give it some mechanical adhesion by sanding it, but fear not.
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