Single-stage paint,not good to wetsand/buff?

what type are you spraying?

 

Hey,

Back in the 70s, when a gallon of red acrylic enamel sold for 60-70 bucks, and a gallon of synthetic enamel sold for 30-35 bucks I'd intermix the early urethane hardners and clears with the cheap reds. What you'd get is a poorman's urethane for the cost of a synthetic.

These days I don't play russian roulette with paint products given the numbers we're talkin, but if yer fellin' lucky.............toss the dice

" Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "

 

Back in the 70's when I was beginning to do a little bodywork, I had an hot rodder from the 50's tell me he always put his paint on a hot plate and warmed it real good(really hot) and immediately sprayed it. I never tried it but always wondered if it made sense. I think it was enamel.
I think he said he didn't need hardener by doing that.

Anyone ever try?

 

It's a great trick to get the enamel to flow out, but it DOES NOT make it anything near the hardness, chemical and abrasion resistance of a catalyzed paint. Only hardener can do do this. It chemically crosslinks the molecules in the paint, making it stronger. It also allows the paint to be recoated in the future, if you need to, without wrinkling or lifting. Uncatalyzed enamel is famous for this.
And to our Aussie friend....catalyzed acrylic (enamel) is just as dangerous as urethane. Same "bad chemicals" in both systems. Now, unless you are talking about acrylic lacquer? then there is no immediate toxic danger from cyanide, but the dangers of inhaling VOC's like acetone, toluene, etc, make long term exposure to lacquer dangerous as well. Besides the paint solids/resins getting in your lungs.
There are no safe paints!

 

I used the hot plate trick once with Dulux synthetic enamel. I had never sprayed it before and an old guy in the shop told me to try doing it that way. The car looked like an orange when I first sprayed it and I thought the guy was out of his mind for telling me to do it that way, but it flowed out on its own after a few minutes and looked awesomewhen it dried.

 

painted cars and bikes with all different kinds of paints over the yrs.i think ive used every kind of paint known to man and ive always cut and buffed them out.lots of body work and shitty paint job. no way.i dont want bugs and dust in my paint whan my names on that job.we have started out with 800 and ended up with 2500.lots of work but by the time its buffed out 3 different times it usaully looks like a mirror.

 

Great thread and very timely..I need to ask a real "rookie" question..
My latest project was sprayed BC/CC metallic silver and now I can't spot paint any f/ups. I've decided my next project will be a solid color, single stage paint.
My question is ,since you have to put on 3-5 coats to be able to cut& buff..do you sand in between coats or just keep laying it on....
Stan

 

painted overa year ago and still have not buffed it out. 1937 washington blue single stage. Still need to buff it.

 

I'd just spray the 3 coats and sand/buff. If it is a small project like a MC gas tank put 3 coats on and sand then 2 more coats on but I think that is a waste of time and material. I love DCC solid colors. I've shot that stuff since it has come out and it holds up well on daily's, so for a hot rod that spends most of its time under cover that stuff works great, no I don't work for PPG. Good luck! Have fun!

 

I NEVER use bb/cc for solids unless the customer has to have it. The depth that can be acheived with ss is far better than clearcoat. I cut mine with 1000 then 1500 then 2000 and finish with 3000tryzac (the 3000 is on a orbital). Also if you chip single stage you can just melt in a repair spot and sand and buff. Not with clear coat. Alot of painters are afraid of SS because it is not as easy to spray as base coat. Now if it is pearls or metalics then it has to have clear or the cut before the buff will mar the metalics and pearls in the paint and it gets streeky. I have been cutting and buff single stage solids for 30 or so years. The only thing I can say is the federal gooberment has made law thats have killed"Good" paints. They are like water now when they use to be thick. I dont find the sun has to much affect on single stage if it is cared for with waxing and such. But if left out in the ellements any paint job will go away so.....

 

If the paint is laying pretty nice I wouldn't bother sanding between coats.
If its going down with a heavy peal because of one problem or another, heavy runs, or lots if dirt then stop, & sand between but correct the problem.

Match your reducer to the metal temp, not the ambient air temp.
That perfect single stage paint job lies on a razor thin line between runs and Orange peel. If your going to sand and rub it anyway, stay away from the runs with an acceptable amount of peel.

 

We all want the "old look" to our new paint. Not much can compare to fully surfaced and polished lacquer, nitro or acrylic. How to get that look begs the question, how bad do you want it? For a deep gloss like the old days, there's a few things you can do. the most important thing is the surfacing. The reflective value of a finish is directly related to the surface quality, like chrome, but it's deeper than that. Dark colors like a dark substrate or primer. Reds and yellows like light grey or whites.

To the original question, and I didn't read all the replies so I'm sorry if this is a repeat, there are some catalyzed mat'ls that don't want to be cut and polished. Imron was always in that catagory, some catalyzed acrylic enamels as well. It's not that they can't be done, it's that the surface is the chemical/UV/abrasion resistant element. Cut that off and protection is gone. Newer "4 to 1" single stage colors harden all the way through. Even though the old standard of letting dry to full cure seems obvious, it may not be the best approach. For an ultimate show finish, you could lay down like 3-4 coats at 1st, surface all of that down with 1000 or 1200, then apply 3 more coats reduced about 20-25% more. Give it maybe a full day to purge all the solvents out, then get after it. It will sand and polish pretty easy, and the full cure time will allow your new top surface to be as resistant as it was designed to be. If you wait for full cure, some mat'ls will indeed lose their protection, but worse yet from a hands on viewpoint, fully cured finishes are miserable to cut and polish. They're resilient and flexible by nature. "Die back" happens where and when you least expect it. Die back is when your sanding scratches re-appear. What happens is, the scratches end up "folding over" instead of being cut off due to the durability of the urethane. If you do it before full cure they tend to blend right into the finish, they cut off and leave a really deep wet look, then you end up with full cure all the way through. For you restoration types that want an OEM texture w/out sags and dirt, cut and buff the finish the very next day. Not only will it polish quicker and easier than you're used to, but it will also "re-peel" consistantly over the whole job and be closer to an OEM finish than a show polish, but still have a nice deep shine.

 

I found this to be a good read.....
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184233

EDIT; I know it has nothing to do with new paint...just thought it was relevant to a good shine.

 

Boy, I hope I'm not in for trouble with mine.
I sprayed it using single stage Sherwin Williams 3rd Dimension 5.0 Urethane Enamel almost a year ago, and almost immediately afterwards had to deal with settling my Mother's estate. I never got back out to sand and buff it as soon as I had planned. Then winter set in.

I hope because it is a solid light cream color it will be forgiving.

 

Here is a S/S that looks far better than any B/C I have done. Not exactly HAMB friendly but . . .

 

Got a motorcycle tank to paint in my future. I want to paint on logos and pinstripping. How are the transitions between colors delt with when using SS?

 

The tank in post 39:
Two coats of black, 24 hour wait, light scuff area to be painted, mask, light grey primer coat, two coats red, 48 hour wait, cut and buff, pinstripe.
Note: the only reason for the primer coat (more of a fog coat) was to eliminate the black influence on the red

 

Has anyone specifically cut/buffed Limco 3?

 

yes, but it was about 10 years ago, formula has probably been changed. it worked well then, i would bet they made it better.it was on a '37 chevy "farm" truck for actor James Earl Jones and he was happy with it.

 

What about SS over BC/CC ? Any special or Wierd prep needed ?
Thinking about shooting my daily now THANKS.

 

S/S PPG Black love this stuff acrylic enamel

 

^^^This is a killer car^^^

 

I am loving the look of this tank. I have been looking at other system thinking a BC/CC was my only choice. No experiance with auto paints but I am always willing to try something new. Going for solid black with gold logos & possibly some pins. Still dont understand how your cutting the edges and not blowing through to the black? It must take a light touch to feather those edges.

 

In this case a pinstripe is your friend. And yes, you have to be careful at the edge. I always color sand dry, that way you can easily see as you approach smooth.

 

Even Tremclad can be polished

 

X-2 , Single Stage can look much more like a well done lacquer finish than BC/CC. I really like that look. However, unlike BC/CC, over time there will be some oxidation, making a perfect blend or panel match more difficult with SS. I'm glad for this thread. I have gotten into the habit of painting EVERYTHING with BC/CC. Think i'll paint my current project with SS and save money.

 

Any input ?

 

Originally Posted by 31Vicky with a hemi View Post
What about SS over BC/CC ? Any special or Wierd prep needed ?
Thinking about shooting my daily now THANKS.

Wouldnt that be a simple as shooting a sealer?

 

Has anyone used, or considered using the Summit brand acrylic urethane SS paints? If so, how did it work out? If not, is there a reason not to use it?

Jason

 

Kind of a loaded question, are you talking about a respray or some kind of striping or other effects? Regarding respray, what you have to do is dependent on the condition of the current paint, and the chemical compatibility of the old and new paint being used. In that respect being single stage or base clear should make no difference.