fresh cam, is my oil too thin?

Prior to my brake issues, the SBC in my f1 got a cam transplant in hopes of having something a little more driveable. I installed new hydraulic flat-tappet lifters, left the fresh springs from the last cam (about 600 miles ago) and broke the cam in appropriately.

As of now when i start the truck up there is a faint ticking from the left bank (hardly noticable) however after about a 10 mile drive today i hopped under the hood while it was idling and noticed some soft valvetrain noise.

Maybe i'm just being too anal or something but i just wanted to see if that was normal. The sound is similar to a soft "chick-chick-chick-chick" as if it had roller rockers (but it doesn't). Its by no means overwhelming, but I can hear it. Im not sure if its just normal and im being a bit too nit-picky but i thought id at least ask. When i set up the valvetrain i went through twice to make sure all the valves were adjusted correctly.

my cam is a comp 12-205-2


Operating Range: 800-4800 RPM
Duration Advertised: 252° Intake / 252° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 206° Intake / 206° Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.5 Rockers: .425'' Intake / .425'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 110°

im using castrol conventional 10w30 with BG MOA to help with the nickel content

any input would be great guys!

 

Sounds like you did not preload the lifters quite enough.Ttry another 1/4 turn down.

 

small exhaust leak sounds like a lifter

 

i initially thought that, when the valve is on the base circle of the cam the rocker has a little play, is this ok? id hate to take em down a 1/4 turn and rub a cam lobe off. iirc i set the valves by twirling the pushrod between my fingers until i felt adequate resistance, then went a half turn past. sound right to you guys?

 

I would re-adjust them all again at 3/4 turn!
"initially thought that, when the valve is on the base circle of the cam the rocker has a little play, is this ok? "
You did adjust Ex. & Int. in the rite order?

 

yes, exhaust first then intake on #1

for the record, i used the break in oil supplied with the cam too

so if i go a little further on the lifter pre-load, it wont hurt anything. maybe try another 1/4 turn and see what they do?

when doing stuff like setting up my valvetrain and whatnot, i try to be meticulous about details

 

adjust your lifters with the engine running, there is no easier way.

 

If your annal you did it this way?
Comp Cam's web page adjustment;
When the exhaust valve just begins to open on the #1 cylinder, adjust the #1 intake valve by loosening the adjusting nut slightly while spinning the pushrod until you feel lash in the rocker arm. Tighten the adjusting nut until the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. Lightly turn the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, and you should feel a point where there is a little resistance. This is called zero lash – the point where you have taken all of the excess slack out of the pushrod. Turn the adjusting nut ½ turn past this point, giving you optimal pre-load for the rocker arm, pushrod and lifter. Follow this procedure by carefully adjusting each intake valve according to cylinder firing order.

Next, we’ll adjust the exhaust valves. To do so, you need to turn the engine over until the intake pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate just past maximum lift, where the intake will begin to close. The lifter is now at the base circle, and the exhaust valve can be adjusted. Note: DO NOT go too far down (over halfway) past the point of maximum lift. If you go too far, you will be in the overlap cycle – where intake valve lash is being taken up as the exhaust valve begins to open.

Rotate the exhaust pushrod with your fingers and begin to tighten the exhaust adjusting nut. When you begin to feel resistance against the pushrod, you are once again at zero lash. Tighten the adjusting nut another ½ turn. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN. Repeat through the firing order until the lash on every exhaust valve has been set.

Now it’s time to double check, starting with cylinder #1. When the exhaust begins to open, check the intake. New hydraulic lifters shouldn’t be pumped up yet, so you should be able to spin the pushrod with some resistance. Think of the hydraulic lifter as a shock absorber – and you want to be right there in the middle of it. Until you have oil pressure, you’ll be able to push the lifter plunger into the bottom of the lifter. At that point, the lifter becomes solid. It might help to mark each rocker that has been set and then mark again each one that has been checked, giving the ones that are 100% finished a big “X” on the rocker arm body.

The old static way of doing it;

Order 0 deg TDC, both number one valves shut.

Adjust the #1 exhaust valve

Adjust the #1 intake valve

Adjust the #3 exhaust valve

Adjust the #5 intake valve

Adjust the #7 intake valve

Adjust the #2 intake valve
Adjust the #4 exhaust valve
Adjust the #8 exhaust valve
Now rotate the engine 360 degrees. The mark on the balancer should be back at the TDC mark. Keep in mind that this is not the TDC where #1 would be firing! It's where #6 would fire.
Adjust the #3 intake valve
Adjust the #5 exhaust valve
Adjust the #7 exhaust valve
Adjust the #2 exhaust valve
Adjust the #4 intake valve
Adjust the #6 exhaust valve
Adjust the #6 intake valve
Adjust the #8 intake valve

 

What he said
And the oil should be fine, but if the tick stays,it wont hurt to go thicker with the oil

 

yes that is correct.

so quick update, last week i tried adjusting the valves with an open valve cover. It seemed like it had cut the noise down to within a tolerable amount...but only for a while. I drove it to work Monday (80 miles round trip) and by the time i got home it sounded like a diesel truck. So i tried adjusting them again while running but they wouldn't quiet down.

After talking with Comp Cams and Jegs, i got Jegs to send me out another set of their lifters. they should be here tomorrow but until then i tore into the motor and pulled the old ones out.

I took some pics of them, i didn't keep order of them since new ones are going in, but i'm looking for opinions on the oddball looking lifter (column 8 row B)

all the other lifters have similar wear patterns accept that one. i was a little concerned until i pulled out my old lifter set from my last cam and noticed that there were a few that looked like this as well.

so could anyone tell me if i should be worried about it?

thanks guys

 

Are they cupped?

 

Hard to tell from the pics but if the bottom is not concave then I see no problem with those. It's always something isn't it? Thats what makes this hobby so interesting and frustrating at the same time.

 

Your problem is not oil. Are you using the stock rocker locknuts? They are notorious for backing off if used. 2/3 turn after no slack in the P/Rod should do you fine.

 

lifters are worn so cam is too

run a hone thru lifter guides make sure that lifters are free to turn on your new cam&lifters..........

 

ok, update...man am i stumped


got my new lifters from jegs, this time i cleaned them really good before letting them soak overnight in 10w30. today, installed everything, adjusted the valves EXACTLY as brigrat said to. got the timing dead nuts just by stabbing the distributor with the balancer mark around 10 degrees. fired it right up, awesome oil pressure, good throttle responce. going through my break in procedure and STILL have a bunch of valvetrain noise.

i have no clue what to try next here. i marked all of my rocker locknuts and pulled the vc off but none of them backed out. this sucks because i really dont think the truck will be coming with me to LSRU...bummer

 

It might not be the thinness of the oil but the lack of zinc, maybe. Did you use some zink additive or pre SM oil?

 

Yep, used the stuff with the cam plus some BG MOA

 

Unfortunately now you might have a flat cam.................
Have you checked to see if your rocker studs are pulling out of the head? Marked rocker nuts could still show no sign of movement but studs could be pulling straight out?

 

X2 Makes a little mess but works well. Check for exhaust leak first.

 

No, brig rat. I suppose I could check for that. I just find it hard to believe I could flatten multiple lobes, as the noise is not one or two specific rockers. It literally sounds like a loosely setup valvetrain. Could my cam swap necessitate a different pushrods length?

 

Pull the distributor out and take off the valve covers.
Get a drill motor and spin the shaft for the oil pump.
Make sure the oil is getting up through the pushrods to the rocker arm areas. You could possibly have an oiling issue. Could be as simple as a clogged push rod.

 

Well I've been messing with this for a few days and I've actually found out that the valvetrain noise is only apparent when the motor is warm. Upon initial cold startup, the motor sounds completely normal.

Any ideas what that could mean? Again, thanks for all the input guys

 

Gonna try some 20/50 and a new filter. Any other ideas from the afternoon crew?

 

sounds like it doesn't like the 10w-30

 

If your lifters looked like that I would be suspect of the cam lobe(s) too. What did Comp Cams say about that?

Flat tappet cams are becoming a real problem and even with a high load of zinc additive there seems to be no guarantees on longevity anymore.

Don

 

Comp cams said to "run some seafoam through it and see what that does" ...no joke

 

Did I miss the post where you said it did not have a flat cam or that the studs are not pulling out? SBC are not that complicated...................

 

Are you running a mechanical fuel pump? They can sound EXACTLY like a noisy lifter if the spring in the pump is weak or the arm on the pump is loose.


I should add, you claim it ran like a diesel truck ... a noisy fuel pump won't cause that but messing with the lifter adjustment can (meaning overtightening when they were fine to begin with, causing rough idle). I adjusted a running engine once ... and only once. Now I always adjust cold and not running ... spin the pushrod till tight, then 1/2 turn. That's it.

Not saying it is your fuel pump (for all I know you are running an electric) but I do know from experience that a noisy pump sounds just like a lifter tick. Set the valves cold and 1/2 turn and leave em. If it is a lifter that is going, you can bet your cam is going too.

You don't mention what cam was in it to begin with but you do mention your new cam is milder than the old one ... If the original cam was pretty wild you might have way more spring pressure than you really need (which would put more pressure than needed on the cam/lifter and possibly cause early wear).

 

What he said about the fuel pump^^^^^^^^^ but I thought you narrowed it down already to valve train noise?

 

I hate to say it ,

But I think the cam is already wiped out...

AND Comp said to use SEA FOAM !