Base + Clear that looks like candy???...with photo example inside

I love this Larry Watson painted car. John Busman's 1956 Chevy. I mean I LOVE it. I painted my cad mill pearl pink with plans to paint the body of the pickup this engine is in candy purple.



Painting my engine was the first time I used a gun. Primer, Base, White Pearl, and clear. I ran a little pearl on the oil pan, but otherwise it turned out pretty nice. You can't see the run unless you're under the truck, lol. Painting my firewall and inner fenders was my second time using a gun. Primer and single stage polar white. Priming my bed was the third time. All was from bare metal. All using Dupont urethanes. I still need to strip and prime the cab and front fenders.

So, I'll have a couple of more times with the paint gun before I'm ready to lay down paint. But still, calling me an amateur is overstating my paint talent and experience. Everything I read about spraying candy scares me. There's so many ways to get it wrong. Run it and it's ruined, start over. Get your passes wrong and get stripes and it's ruined. Start over. Multiple coats only serves to compound the chances to ruin it.

So, and long story short, I'm kind of scared to spray candy. But I still really want something like that chevy. So lets divide this question into several parts.


1.a. Is there a base clear that can resemble candy?
1.b. Do you know of any newer cars with a similar base clear as the '56 chevy above so I can try to see one outside in the daytime (way better than a chip in the paint store)?

2.a. If I can't get the desired result from a base clear, teach me how to spray candy. Pretty please?
2.b. Can an amateur like me pull it off?

I have to do all this stuff myself because I can't afford to pay a pro. And I do enjoy the satisfaction of doing stuff myself. Thanks in advance for help, tips, suggestions, jokes, or whatever.


Love,

terd

 

And.......

This picture, sent to me by my pal JeffyJames, inspired the color combo but the Watson painted chevy just nails it.

 

House of Kolor has a Kandy Base Coat system that is a real nice second to a true kandy job.

if you really wanna check it out, go cruise the car lots on a sunny day. not a lot of cars leaving the factory in purple these days, but you might find something that grabs you. get the model and year and a quality paint store can mix it. problem is that most paint that meets that criteria in the late model market is 3 stage and a real pain. but you MIGHT get lucky. if im not mistaken the early 2000's PT cruisers had a cool purple on 'em.

but i'd still explore the HOK line.

 

Thanks, I just checked out their site. That still seems like a three stage regular candy system. What makes that easier than a regular candy job?

Thanks again!

 

I'll agree with alteredpilot, try to find a factory color that is close to what you want. Pay close attention to the luxury brands, they usually have funkier colors than a Chevy or a Toyota.

Especially if you're going to drive the Queen of Trucks daily, it will be much easier (notice I didn't say easy) to touch up in the future. You won't have to mess around with custom blends of toners that the paint shop might not have available 3-5 years from now; you just give them a factory paint code and they should be able to match it.

And if you do screw up and tiger-stripe the crap out of it, it's only another few hundred hours of sanding and starting over, right?

 

The depth of candy is like the abyss.

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
Friedrich Nietzsche

You stare into the candy and the candy stares back into you. There is an exchange of consciousness. It's a beautiful thing. I want that.



Can a base clear emulate that depth?

 

no.
a true candy can only be what it is.

the KBC system is a bc/cc system. 2 step.

they blend kandy and pearl into a base coat color to produce the desired effect. shoot clear, and you're done. doesn't have the depth of a true candy, but when you clear it some of the candy bleeds back into the clear to give it some depth.

 

You do know Nietzsche was a fucking whackadoo right?

I don't think the modern base/clears have the depth of real candy, but I'll defer to the guys who know the exact ingredients in their cars' paintjobs. Pictures will help, but they don't do justice to a truly epic paint job.


Hey AP, can you toss a bit of the base into the clear (like 3-5%) to help with the depth perception?

 

Their sheet says you need a ground coat before the base coat and then clear. That said, is it harder to run and/or stripe the base/candy/pearl mix than a true candy?

 

I am a fucking whackadoo. And I'm dumb enough to do candy even if it's tough if I can't get the look I want with base/clear. I could screw up and do it twice and still be cheaper than a pro. But therein lies the rub. I could also screw it up the second time. And it's not cheap to do it once, let alone twice.

 

the ground coat is standard to any quality job. usually its the sealer coat. that really doesn't count as a step.

as far as application, the KBC is a bit less sensitive than a straight candy, however you WILL NOT get the depth from the KBC as you will from doing a straight candy job.

if you want a real kandy job, shoot a ton of test panels. go grab some fenders from the junkyard and practice your technique. get after it.

 

I guess I was kind of confused reading their sheet. It does say sealer, but it says it's a silver metallic sealer to get it all one color before the base.

And if I wind up using candy, I figure I'll do some test panels.

 

GET AFTER IT.

i did my first complete in 2010 with a legit 3 stage flame job. freaked me out, but i got it done.

dont be scared. get after it.

 

If you have access to different guns, use them as well. It's not like you have a time-tested technique that will get messed up by switching equipment.

I'll give you a personal example: Several years ago I bought the Devilbiss Finishline kit from Eastwood. It has a standard gun with a couple different sized tips, and a smaller touch-up gun. I can lay down a decent paint job with the standard gun, but I still have to really concentrate on what I'm doing.

That little touch-up gun, however, is like an extension of my arm. I don't know if it's because the gun is lighter, or maybe a little bit better built, or what. But I can wave that thing around, do whatever, and get a nice, even, wet coat with it, and rarely leave a drip or a dry area. I use that gun for almost all the clear I shoot even though it's a pain in the ass to have to refill the little cup 20,000 times.

I have since bought a couple other guns to comply with the water-based paint we have to shoot here in Cali now; but I still go back to that particular gun for clear just because it is so effortless to use.

 

Thanks. I guess I'm going to have to, haha!

Thanks for touching on something I have experienced but haven't thought much about. When I was spraying the epoxy primer, my arm would get tired from the weight of the big gun. This would lead to being less steady with the gun. I didn't suffer a mistake with the primer, but it's much more forgiving.

Like I said, I'm an amateur at best. I've not used a touch up gun before. Do you get as wide a fan spray on the touch up gun as the big gun? Is the only difference the cup size?

 

The fan is smaller also, like maybe 5" instead of 8". That could also be a factor, ultimately there is more overlapped paint with the smaller gun.

I've found if I run the air hose across my shoulders it helps a lot with the fatigue factor. Then my hand is only supporting the weight of the gun.

Also switch to pints for a couple weeks before you paint, build up your muscles!

 

Don't be scared of doing a real candy job. I have faith that you can pull it off. I'm a fan of the HOK stuff and that's what I'd use. And it's what we used on Rush's 51 Buick a few years ago.

 

You'll NEVER get the looks of candy with any paint, you can get the colors, with the HOK KBC system, but never the "depth of finish" that true candy has.
I have seen a car that a kid did his first time spraying a whole car, in Candy Brandywine, that came out fantastic, the only time I've even seen this. I, on the other hand, have seen, and repainted, MANY cars that guys, even VERY good painters, have tried to do in candy and failed. By failed, I mean blotching, striping, uneven color, etc.
The kids' first car was a dark color, which definately helps. The more candy you put on, the darker the color becomes. The darker the color, the harder it is to see uneven-ness. But you can still see problems if they are not minor ones.
The lighter, bright colors are the hardest...certain colors, like green, teal, and root beer are the toughest of all, for some reason!
To spray candy, you have to know the system, and how to shoot it properly. There are many tricks and techniques to help you get the spraying done right. Kosmoski has a pretty good video of how to shoot candy, you can get it from HOK.
Basically, you have to have PERFECT technique and gun control. Your gun had to spray accurately, and evenly in atomization. EVERY pass with the gun has to be the same exact speed, distance, and correct angle to the surface of the car. A slowdown in one spot, or too close an overlap will result in a darker area in that spot. Too fast, too far away, or 'fanning' your wrist, will give you a light area. In general, you cannot correct mistakes like this in candy, you pretty much have to sand and start from scratch (base color).
Kosmoski advises you try to lay out your shooting pattern as if you are a robot. Perfect even passes, with accurate overlap. I like to keep perfectly level with the ground. Do not let the shape of the car body fool you, and make your passes closer together, say where the fenders or quarter panels droop downward.
Each pass, you need to "walk" the entire car, front to rear. You can't stop at fender, door and quarter panel edges, like a regular paint job.Transition areas are the toughest, as you might imagine. VERY hard to get even paint on them.
There is more to this, but I don't have the time to write it all.
You can also use KBC candy, which is a base/clear paint. You can also put "real" candy on top of KBC, to give it a bit more depth, and it is definately easier than putting candy over silver/gold, but it still takes a bit more technique, control and concentration, than base/clear. It WILL make the color darker, just like real candy will, so it is important to do spray outs first, to lock in your color, knowing how many coats to achieve it, as well as spraying speed/distance/overlap.
To give your KBC a bit more depth the easier way, after spraying your color, take about 10% color and mix it in with your first coat or 2 of clear. Be careful with spray pattern, but not as critical as doing candy. The extra pearl and color in the clear will give your paint some transparency, like an old lacquer job, and closer to the look of real candy. Finish, of course, with straight clear, as you would normally. Again, though, do spray-outs to get your mixes and spray techniques right!
PM me with questions, I've been using HOK custom paint since the 80's. Lots of Kandy jobs in my resume!

 

Spraying candy can be a little tricky, but it's not really as hard as a lot of people will make it sound. The old lacquer candies were a bastard to spray and striped horribly if you got it wrong, but modern urethane base/clears are a lot more forgiving. The best tricks I can give while typing on a message board (As opposed to being there in person) are: 1.Spray lighter coats. Base coat doesn't need to be applied very wet. It may take you more coats to cover and get the effect you are looking for, but it will be worth it in the end. Candy is still a base coat. It is base coat binder with a small amount of tint in it. The same rules apply. 2.Try to spray as consistantly as possible. Generally, the paint manufacturers will tell you to spray 5-8 inches away from the panel with a 50-75% overlap between passes. Start there and adjust to your own comfort. 3. Arm fatigue sucks and can be an issue. As you get tired, you will get inconsistant. Gravity guns help and I agree with the previous post about hanging the hose back over your shoulder. It's a good habit to get in to anyway so you don't drag the hose against the car. Past that, you're using muscles that you don't normally use in a way that you don't normally use them for longer than you would normally use them. If you don't paint regularly, your arm will get tired. Just be aware of it and try to be conscious to stay consistant through it. Maybe try to stretch a bit before you spray. Sounds hokey, but it works. 4. Practice, practice, practice. Once again, I agree with the previous post about getting a junk yard panel and precticing on it before you get to your car. Spray it, sand it down, spray it again, sand it down again, etc. until you are happy with it. It may seem like overkill to sand it down every time, especially being a junk practice panel, but you want to spray over a smooth surface to get it to look nice. If you are spraying over previous orange peel, you'll see it and not get a good indicator of how you're doing. Hope this helps you a bit.

 

Man, I have no advice to keep you on spraying but I will say this; if it is candy you want go for real candy and accept no substitute! Over here in England there are very very few true candy paint jobs, with practically everyone that wants "trick" paint opting for the easier flake option. And almost all people that use flake Use the pre-coloured stuff with just clear over the top. I am fortunate enough to have candy red over flake, but it is the depth of the candy that stops people in their tracks more than the flake. However you decide to go about it, go with real candy and you will Pat yourself on the back for your impeccable taste in the long run.
I can't wait to see your truck when it's finished.
Best of luck
Paul

 

I painted my 35 chevy standard chopped coupe in 92 ,i was workin at a garage next to a chevy dealer and they were unloading new camaros and BAM !!! there was a awesome purple one i ran out got the paint code . i can get the code later if you want its back at my shop but the color was hawaiian orchard,i used chroma premier and the best chroma clear and man it had a deep candy like finish

 

You could use the above mentioned orchid purple, with a hopped up pearl/metallic concoction over that, and a candy top coat over that....big problem with trying to copy a 50+ year old color, pigments and pearls aren't same....one of best drag car painters around told me about using methacalate (sp) for candys.....go find that at your local paint supplier...

 

Hmmm. Smaller fan means more passes which means more chances to screw up. But, the air hose accross the shoulders is an AWESOME tip.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Don't know if I deserve it or not, lol. If/when I do it, it'll be HOK.

All great info, thanks! I may take you up on the PM offer as I'm sure I'll have a ton more questions as I get closer to doing this.

More great info. Thanks!

Thanks a ton Paul! The depth is what I LOVE about candy. And I LOVE your paint job!!

I looked at some web pics and the shade is ok. But that doesn't show what it looks like in person in daylight. I'll see if I can find one I can check out in person. Thanks!

I'd like to get as close as possible to the finish of the '56 chevy. I know materials are different nowadays, but anywhere near that shade, shine, and depth will be fine with me. What is methacalate and what do it do?

 

To say spraying candy can be difficult is a huge understatement.I have done a dozen overalls in the past 25 years and struggled with everyone of them.You need to be prepared to start the complete job over with every pass of the gun,and this can be very costly in materials ,1500 to 2000 every time you try, it is that unforgiving.Even if the job looks great in the booth when you pull it out in the sunlight streaking and blotching always is evident somewhere.The door jams are another issue.Lots of guys cheat and flat black these areas because you cant match them after the job is done.I prefer to panel paint my projects all at one time with the car completely apart so as not to have any tape lines,with candy this is impossible to do.Yes an overall in candy can look fantastic but just be prepared for what can happen Good Luck

 

Your post is not giving me any confidence, haha!

 

I agree with Chopolds. Do as he says or be prepared for less than desired results.

 

I was told methacrylate was used to print pop cans....bill said it was crystal clear and he could do a 3 coat candy job with it.....that being said, researched it it and found out its used to tint plexiglass and acrylic clear plastics.....you can achieve the look, might take a little trial and error ....think heavy pearl and metallic lavender base and candy /transparent toner from there....

 

So now that I know I am properly intimidated and my fears are for good reason, can we talk about the color of the Busman '56 chevy?

What color base do you think was used? Silver?

I talked to a pro earlier today. He advised I should try a black base as it will hide any potential "smaller" mistakes better than a lighter color like silver. What say you?

 

Time out partner. I think we are missing an important concept. Kandy is just a tinted clear. You are looking at the base coat. If you use black only under the Kandy you will basically see black. To lighten it up you have to have something reflective over the black, I used to use silver white pearl as a minimum over black, but you still end up with an extremely dark color except where the sun is reflecting.

Back to your question, it looks like silver base to me. You could do this. Practice. I found the gun made a huge difference. My old MBC was blotchy, so I bought a new (then) Sharpe 75; made all the difference in the world. Interesting that some of you think it's easier using today's urethanes. I liked the old lacquers, but had the benefit of being able to cruise over to Kosmoski off Lake street and ask him.

Not to change the subject, but if you chicken out, take a look at 96 GM Cyclamen PPG 4992. Not Kandy, but not bad. I just saw a Buick a kid had just gotten out of his grandmother's garage and it was perfect. I had to look it up.
http://images.gtcarlot.com/gtgallery/photo.php?id=578934
The photo does not do it justice.

 

You will not get the candy effect over black, the darker the color the less of an effect, though it is pretty cool in the right light. You get some of it.

You may have seen this one we did a couple years ago at Heavy Rebel



We candied over the black as well.

More pics of the process.
http://s147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/zekanis/51buick/