Is there some epoxy used on the new cars

Please refresh my memory...seems to me that there was a thread awhile back that mentioned some metal cement/epoxy that was useful at times.... Outside of JB weld... Any idea of what I may be thinking of. If there is some sort of product out there I'd be interested in any of it details.

The application of this that I'm considering is for attaching a fabbed drip rail in my Tudor build...Additionally, I'd be tacking the drip rail every 3-4inches in addition to the Mystery Epoxy.

Why don't I just weld the damn thing up you ask???? Dads concerned that it'll be tough to keep that area from getting "wonkY" with the heat. Knowing that we'd be skipping around as we will with the top I don't see it as much different of a situation.

So my thought is to epoxy the drip rail, tack it, the fill and finish flush with filler. Am I steering toward problems with this..OR ? Would this be a "stable" configuration...would it telegraph/crack thru the paint??

all comments welcomed

 

I've used 3M Panel Bonding Adhesive on several projects and it hasn't let me down yet. It sands very well and is some stout stuff!

 

3M Panel Bond, used on door skins, qtr panels etc. It is a two part product and requires a special gun to apply. A really great product with many uses around the shop.

 

The Beave's right

 

i hope you get some good answers on this question! i'm was wondering about useing some of that stuff to caulk the seem between a 30 gas tank and cowl that's been welded in the inside.

 

Man you fellas are quick too it...thanks all for lending some info my way.

 

Some companies like Evercoat make panel bonding epoxy's that can be used with a regualr caulking gun rather than the $100 one needed for the 3M. They have 4 different speeds depending on how much work time you are after.

http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=242

 

I use 3M 08115 panel bonding adhesive extensively and would recommend it for almost any job short of structural bonding. I have even used it to install a firewall in my 56 F100...strong and doesn't warp the joined metal.

 

The newer Jags with lots of aluminum body panels use adhesive to keep it together.

 

Just ran out of 3m today use it for glueing window fuzzys and about any thing else that i don't want to come a part. They did a lot of research to develop a product that contracts and expands with the parent metal. Good stuff.BUCKD

 

this is the HAMB, a true HAMBer don't glue his car together D)


how were they attached originally? I don't know what you are working on but just thinking here for 2 seconds I figured how to replace rain gutter on a 49 chevy. can't be that difficult on other cars.

 

Yup, I have an 06 XJ8, the whole unibody is aluminum and it's all riveted and bonded together. No rattles at 75k NYC area miles either. In fact, where the car is riveted it's also bonded, and the strength isn't in the rivets.

I've been told numerous times that the 3M Panel Bond "Don't use this on structural" is for liability reasons, the stuff is stronger than a weld. I have played with it, scary how tough it is. Panel Bond is to JB Weld as Kroil is to WD40.

 

if panel bond cement is used you don't mix welding with it...heat will release the bond...

have used it on patch panels and worked great on a '58 Ford

 

Go slow so it doesnt get hot enough to burn you and its ok.

If you have to use glue there is catalyzed fiberglass/ epoxy of different kinds. Go to a paint supply store. "kitty hair" different lengths and it's annoying to mix and sand but tough as hell.

 

knew a guy that used PL400 with no problems

 

I think 3M is suppose to be the best. Ive never used it but have experience with Fuzor it works good. Do yourself a favor though dont get any of this stuff anywhere near where you want to weld or its like welding over seamsealer or something along those lines. In other words its a joke

 

When I had a wreck in my newish van, I was amazed at how much plastic there was in my truck....Anyhow, the guy that ran the body shop where the truck was , explained to me how the industry uses a lot of panel adhesives like the 3M. He said that the damaged plastic tears away "real easy" but he would have to use a grinder to remove the glue before the new panel was attached. Must be Strong Suff

 

Im honestly not a guy to go glueing stuff together. Im more of the welding type. They say the stuff is stronger than welding. I still dont see how that could be but whatever.

 

The best way to educate yourself on new technology is to get some firsthand experience with it. There is a guy in my club who was a naysayer...old guy who also thought that "glue" was like Elmer's and should be left to wife's scrapbooking. I took two pieces of 1 inch strap steel and bonded them together at a 90 degree angle...this means that the surface area that held to two pieces was only 1 square inch. I gave him the part and told him to give it his best shot at trying to break the bond...he couldn't! He put the part in a vise and beat it with a BFH until he finally broke one piece of the steel but he couldn't break the bond.

I have heard many badmouth the technology and when asked it they had ever USED the technology the answer is always NO.

 

The factory bonding process, in a highly controlled environment, will probably last many years. The do it yourself process - how long will it last? But, since restored jalopies get rebuilt on a regular basis anyway, maybe the home process will be fine.

 

Good info right there. I have used the stuff for years on ot projects and my dash filler panels were glued in my 36'. Never had an issue with it but it sure isn't traditional....

 

I used the stuff on an o/t bronco (rear wheel arch repair). It was easy to use, sanded easily and looked great afterwards. Check out eastwood, they're got the dimpler vise grips to countersink the rivets into the panel for easy cover up.

 

Everybody is entitled to an "opinion"...go do you homework before making any further hypotheses. If you have some hard data on the "factory bonding process" as opposed to the "do it yourself" process then present it...otherwise keep your "probably" and "maybe" comments to yourself.
Like I said before...those who work with it love it, those who don't can only make disparaging remarks about it.

 

Seriously?!? This is the HAMB, Not the HACK. I wish I had a few hundred bucks for every time I repaired crap like that.......oh never mind I DO!

Thank you Charlie! Some one had to say it! Please don't post if you don't know what the hell your talking about! There are people here that just might take your advise.This is the most miss-used miss- understood product brought up on the hamb. It is for pinch weld type of joints or NON EXPOSED overlaps. NOT OVERLAPING patch panels! It WILL show a line. Just a matter of time. It will not come apart if done properly, but it will ghost line.

 

Do not be afraid of panel bonder. Kent Automotive makes the best one out there, the 2:1 is my favorite, part # KT12638, but not available to public only shops. Might get a body shop to sell you some and see ig they will rent you the gun to apply it.

When you get the drip rail bonded in place do not use filler to smooth it on the top side. Smooth the panel bonder on the bottom when you install the rail and then fill the top with Self Leveling Flowable Seam Sealer. Tape off the ends and flow it in. Have a heat gun handy to pop any bubbles that might appear as it is curing up (five mintues or so) carbon dioxide pops the bubbles so you can breath heavy on them if your heat gun can't be found. When the seam sealer cures it will be paint ready and smooth. It will look a lot like the original drip rails of yesteryear but because the product is epoxy it will hold up real well. Primer and paint when you paint the top and your good to go.
Dan

 

Just looked at the Kent website...appears that they will sell to anyone with money to spend. Shape of the cartridge looks the same as Lord Fusor and 3M, should be able to use the same gun for the Kent product. I haven't used any Kent products but I have used the 3M Heavy Bodied Seam Sealer for drip rails...works great.

 

I've read your recommendation a few times and I'm scratching my head with the use of the seam sealer on the top side and no filler. As you know I have no first hand experance with these products but had hoped to clean up the topside with filler for it's ease to blend it all in. Can you break out your suggested method and pass some rationale on that seam sealer vs the filler on the topside.

Thanks to all for adding more. I did not expect this level of comment on this subject.

 

Boxcar,
When you use the panel bonder make sure you don't over clamp it. Kent panel bonder has glass beads in it to help with this. If you hear crunching sounds the clamps are too tight. You don't want to squeeze out the material between the rail and roof. It's what does the bonding. After clamping you can take a popcicle stick or similar object to spread and smooth out any panel bonder that squeezes out, top and bottom.

On the top surface I was assuming you are going to have a channel. That channel is what you use the Self Leveling Seam Sealer in. Just tape off the ends as you are going to want to fill the channel, not all the way flush but part way. Squeeze out the sealer along the rail in the channel. It will seek it's own level. Make sure you have enough sealer to fill the channel to the height you desire. The butane torch is used to pop the bubbles that occur. When a bubble rises to the surface just pass the torch over the surface and they will disapear. You don't actually point the torch at the sealer but pass it over the surface.

The panel bonder, seam sealer and the torch are all on the Kent web site. Read up on them and then have fun. When in doubt do a test piece to see how the stuff works. It looks like Kent will get you in touch with an agent as they don't sell retail if you put your info into their system. I have used 3M, Fusor Wurth and by far the Kent works best. JMHO
Dan

 

Boxcar, the adhesive will hold fine as long as you follow the product makers instructions. However if you use body filler over the joint and blend in an overlap it will show a line. We call them ghost lines, Sometimes they show only in the sun, sometimes all the time, but it will ghost. This is why I keep trying to explain every time this subject comes up that is not for exposed lap joints. Great products....I use several of the "new" two part products in restoration, adhesive, seam sealers, NVH foams. Great stuff, but they have specific uses and are not the magic weld replacement that so many people think they are.

 

Tinbender makes a good point about the ghost lines, for the most part these don't affect my application of the adhesives because my joints are in corners, bends, or other areas that are not exposed. In the case of filling a drip rail, there's no problem with sanding the seam sealer and then painting. I don't think that anyone will look into a drip rail and notice a ghost line. That said, if you are joining a repair panel that has a seam running across the center of a door or quarter panel then you will defenitely want to sand the exposed adhesive back into the joint and apply filler to cover it.

I recommend Kevin Tetz body panel replacement video to anyone who wants to learn more about panel adhesives and how they are used. I rent videos through SmartFlix, here is a link http://smartflix.com/store/video/5657/Body-Panel-Replacement

Here is another pic of a panel I installed on a 56 F100 bed side using 3M 08115 adhesive. When you look at the size of this panel and how it is placed I challenge you to come up with a way to use conventional welding to install it. Once you understand the capabilities (and limitations) of this technology you will find all kinds of applications for it.