Features VINTAGE SPRINT CAR PIC THREAD, 1965 and older only please.

It certainly is!

It's almost a year since I saw that car in person, I still remember the date: February 12, 2011 (I don't recall the date of my first sexual encounter, but I sure know when I first glimpsed underneath the "clothes" of a Miller! ).

Post away what you have, it'll be interesting!

 

History Question: When did sprint cars/big cars move from the usual 90" +- wheel base with a 50" +- set back to a 86" +- wheel base and a 40"set back?

 

Well I have a little more information on the Sprint Car I am trying to trak down history on.
This is from the current owner.
I purchased a 50's sprint car from a guy named John Kubena in El Paso. Actually I purchased it from a family friend as Mr. Kubena had had a stroke and lost his memory. There is no history with the car and other family relatives and friends could be of no help. The car has a Mississippi Valley Vintage Race Car Assn. dash plaque and Springfield Mile 1999 Participant dash plaque and lists the car as registered by B & K Enterprises. Based on this the car must have been active in the MRVRCA area about 12 years ago. I have one old photo of the car with a flathead in it with this same paint job so that must have been the way it ran then.
.....One of the photo captions read, Jimmy all strapped in and ready to go.........
It now has a SBC which must have been added fairly recently as the engine is fresh and quite strong. This is definitely a very early KK tube type style car with early Halibrand drum type brakes.
Any info will be a great help......if only these old cars could talk.

Anyone from this area I can contact that was involved back in 1999 0r 2000 ?

Thanks for any leads!

 

THE COUNT ZBROROWSKI MILLER
After witnessing the debut of the new Miller 122's at the Indianapolis 500 of 1923 where he was an entrant in his Bugatti, the famous Count Louis Zbrorowski ,the half British, half Polish gentleman racing driver was greatly impressed.
Not one to hesitate, the Count immediately ordered a two seater variant and entered it for the Grand Prix of Europe to be held at Monza in September.
(a theme repeated many years later when the Monzanapolis cars were to trounce the European greats in 1957/8 ??)
Some local versions of the history of this car attribute it to being a 1923 Indy car , but this is unlikely as it was not fitted with the narrow gutted coachwork of the Indy entrants.
Miller went to great lengths to see that "his" car had a favourable debut in Europe,sending Riley Brett , his cheif mechanic with the car when it was delivered to England.He was to assist Colonel Clive Gallop, the Count's technical adviser in preparing it for Monza.
I cannot help thinking that the roles may well have been reversed though given Brett's experience with the Millers.
In the Monza race, Zbororowski was was retired at about half distance with engine trouble and the car returned to England for repair.
Its next event was at Brooklands in Surrey where it gained a first and a second on the 26th of September on a track more reminiscent of the banked tracks in the USA and where it was not used constantly up and down the rev range.
Next it went to Barcelona for the Grand Premio des Automoviles, a 250 mile race which it led for 210 miles before a burst tyre forced a stop.
After fitting a replacement the Count set off at breakneck speed in pursuit and only failed to win the race by 50 seconds.
Prepared during the winter it was ready to appear in the 21 car field of the 1924 Grand Prix of Europe to be held on the testing 14 mile circuit at Lyons.
The opposition included works cars from F.I.A.T, Sunbeam,Delage,Bugatti, and Alfa Romeo, the cream of the european crop!!
For 180 miles the gallant Count and the Miller held their own but the circuit, and particularly its harsh surface, tested out the foibles of the thouroughbred to it's limits.
The cars Achille's heel, its weak brakes(there being not much need for brakes on the American boards) required a stop for adjustment and another 70 miles saw them non existant, the steering deteriorating and the car's robustness being called into question.
It was retired.
The Count's driving of the Miller had been noticed!!
He was invited to drive for Mercedes but succumbed to his injuries received when his mount left Lesmo corner at Monza in his first outing for them.
His Estate disposed of the Miller to one Dan Higgin, a "sand racer" who used it for one season at Southport with some little success.
Dudley Froy was the next entrant at the 1926 Brooklands summer meeting ,but once again , engine problems plagued it.
Bert Shorter of Aukland ,New Zealand was the next keeper.
It threw a rod during its demonstration on the wharf after unloading and repeated the performance throwing one of the replacements in the 1927 New Zealand Motor Cup in 1927 at Murawai.
The technicalities of keeping the Miller going , let alone reliable ,seem to have been a taxing problem to the usually innovative Kiwi engineers.
The next owners Keith and Keppel Cutten achived a 5th in the 1928 Motor Cup after falling back from a duel for the lead with still more problems.
1929 saw it retire with oil problems from the Australasian Beach Championships after which it was dismantled , reduced to boxed components ,and sold in disgust to G.A.Matheison, an excellent mechanic who totally rebuilt the car and engine after a lengthy correspondence with Harry Miller during which many problems were overcome.
When it reappeared it was immediately successful.
Between '33 and '36 it won the track championship at both Hennings Speedway and Gloucester Park, the NZ hillclimb championship and the beach championship.
It recorded a flying mile record of 122.74 kmh at Murawai in 1933.
This might seem slow to those used to the 120 odd MPH speeds of Millers , but this was on a public beach with a sand surface of differing consistency and wetness with consequent grip and wheelspin problems.
Eric Morgan, the next owner, brought the car to Australia for the Centenary Grand Prix at Victor Harbour in 1936.
Morgan practiced, but towing the car to the event a domestic road accident broke the front axle and the car was scratched and subsequently sold to Mr Powell of Adelaide.
He used it occaisionally.
He also bastardised it!!
The previously posted photo shows the results of his efforts.
Lowered bodywork, radiator moved forward and an external battery box which indicates that he fitted it with an electric starter and headlights.
During the War it was stored in a shed and it was the early 50's before the new owner Gordon Haverland began to use it sparingly.
Between 1952 and 1976 it was garaged by Haverland and no attempt to start it was made.
Following his death ,the car was seriously advertised for sale.
There were over 50 responses from an add in Road &Track magazine but the car remained in Australia in the care of Lance Dixon.
The basically complete time warp car was put into Lance's restoration facility and comprehensively re-built.
The task , although taxing ,was not insurmountable as the only missing parts were the steering wheel, carburrettors (a tour de force in their own right) the belly pan and the firewall.
Lance is not known to have used the car after it was finished (this being in my home town) and the next news was that the English Maserati expert Richard Crump had arrived to liberate it from our shores.
This was in the mid 80's and no doubt a lot of money was involved although we never got a definitive figure.
Crump's ownership was very short lived (he wouldnt have been a Dealer with a captive client would he??) and the next confirmed owners that I know about (and there may have been some in between) were Ekhardt and Christa Berg.
I believe a new crank and rods were fitted during this time with input from Bill Morris and Tony Merricks in the UK .
I was working for Bill at the time and the original Miller rod which Eckhadrt gave him in appreciation for his input is one of the most jewell like pieces of engineering you could imagine , right down to a gun metal blue finish that would make Purdey's or Holland and Holland proud!
The last time I saw or heard of it was in a picture in Octane Magazine.
It is no doubt still out here and I hope the owner loves it and uses it to its capacity
Some more photos will follow if I can tame this laptop.

Previous photo: no known original photographer to credit.

Historical input apart from my own knowledge of the car
"Historic Racing Cars in Australia"
John B .Blanden
Turton and Armstrong
ISBN 0 908031 83 1

 

zYou need to post that over on this link. We have a guy that might be able to help (500tt).

I'll post the pic for you if you need help .

http://www.hoseheadforums.com/forum.cfm?forumId=11

 

One of the all time great Sprint car drivers. Had to start somewhere.
Richard "Toby" Tobias

 

Labor intensive..........understatement. But I'm happy now that it's symmetrical in the body shape.
Also having to make sure the undertray matches the body flange.
I laid-up fiberglass splashes (female molds) of both parts last Thurs and hope to have the 5/16" thick male fiberglass patterns (laid inside the splashes) ready to deliver the foundry in nxt 10 days.

Got too much real work coming in which takes time from the hobbies, life's like that.
Will take pics this week........fiberglass process is NOT pretty tho.

Have sold one in bronze, couple in aluminum to go to Australia, one for myself of course and hopefully 20 or 30 more in aluminum to recoupe my investment!?!


Thanks for the inquiry Ron.

Jim

 

Hi Guys. I pulled this out for a new HAMBer looking for an original old sprinter, but it didn't work out for him.

I might as well figure out where it came from. It looks like a prewar Big car that was likely updated just postwar. It came from southern California. Based on Ford components (frame is all Model T), early V8 rear housings with free-floaters added. Color was white with red stripes (now with a hint of pink remaining).

maybe someone has an idea of when and where it came from?

Thanks

Dave

 

Does any body know the website that took over for openwheel times its the site that has the records for racers and owners
thanks

 

http://www.sprintcarstats.com/

 

PM me if it's for sale. I have customers that are always "looking".

Thanks,

J Shaw

 

Waiting for pics Smithy!!!!!
Must hold the record for "Most Provenance of any Race Car ever" ?

Jim

 

Judging from the looong engine bay and the scoop & cutouts on the hood, I'm betting it had Ranger power; maybe that'll narrow it down for someone. I think there were a number of Ranger sprinters that ran with CRA in the early post-roadster days. Classy grille, too.

 

My thoughts, too. It sure looks a LOT like the Hank Hanestad/Ranger, but that was from Northern California. Could have ended up in SoCal, though.

 

Check out the duelies.

 

I thought that at first too. Look a little closer , I think its just leaning against the RR.

 

So was this "Toby" Tobias the same one that ran the Nyquist Offy big car in eastern AAA races in the middle 1950s or was there another one (maybe a relative)? I've never been clear on just who the Tobias listed in earlier records really is. Thanks.....

 

No, that was Lawrence "Toby" Tobias. There was also a Guy (or Gus) "Toby" Tobias in the thirties. Since all of them came from the same area in Central Pennsy, I'd guess they were all related - someone know? Guy was from Hegins, and both Larry and Dick from Lebanon, about twenty miles to the south.

 

For the sake of clarity here's the lowdown on Richard 'Dick' L 'Toby' Tobias from Lebanon, PA.
I believe you have one of his Speed Shop tee shirts indyrjc.
http://www.speedstr.biz/dick_toby_tobias.htm

 

I was thinking Hisso, but the ports are on the wrong side. Exhaust exit area looks too short and low for a Ranger.

It's an odd one!

Dave

 

Racer5c drove this one at Zephyr Hills Vintage a few years ago. See post 12250. Not sure how the engine configuration matches up to the hulk in question.

And 'aXe' over at OWR3 mentions George Rogge ran a Ranger in NARC at San Jose that was 'loud and slow'.

 

Here's a picture from a thread on Ranger engines; the exhaust looks like it's close to the height of the opening on the #61.
Judging from the picture of Roy's Zephyrhills ride, they'd have to take a pretty hard down turn, but I think it's possible. The stacks on the car above are headed in that general direction, and the "blister" on the nose is in the same general area as the "mail slot" on the 61. it's bigger, but the nose could be lower; hard to tell from the pic.

 

Man! That's a lot of engine! Looks like it ought to be in an unlimited hydro!

 

Okay fella's.. It's research time again.

I am looking for ANY and ALL info on the "HOOKER 99" racer from the 20's. Owned by Harry Hooker. The car was originally built with an ESSEX frame that had an odd "dip" in the middle, and model T rear horns. It was crashed hard (killing Bill Reid, I think..) and a New frame was put under it at Harry MILLER'S shop. (The Three year old used Tommy Milton frame.)

We are putting it back to the ESSEX frame configuration.

Couple notable drivers were:

BABE STAPP
FRANCIS QUINN
MEL KENEALY
BILL SPENCE

Here is what we have..

Thanks for your help!

J Shaw





------------------------------

 

Josh,

I`d be happy to see any and all pictures you can get of the restoration of this car!

 

Josh,

Was the Milton,later version of this car originally the 23 Indy winner?

 

Yes... Just the frame though.

It is believed that when the Hooker 99 got crashed in 25' the frame was beyond repair. So, Hooker took all the parts that were left, Engine (Miller built DOHC Model T), suspension, body parts, plumbing, guages.. etc. to Harry miller and said "I need a new frame". Harry said "I got just what you need.." The Milton 23' winner FRAME was now 3 years old and outdated sitting in the corner of Millers Los Angeles Shop. So, Harry sold Hooker the frame, and the Hooker 99 was back again, and raced to success for many years.
It was Restored as the Hooker 99 years ago, and was a very well known car in the Vintage circles. It was sold in the late 90's and brought to ZAKIRA'S for a refresh. At that point ZAKIRA'S discovered that the frame had certain aspects on it and curves that didn't match other 122 frames. Drawings were studied and a drawing was found that matched it labeled "Milton 1923 car" So, at that point the Hooker 99 was dismantled and became a pile of parts (Everything but a frame).. Then, four years ago I found an early Essex frame behind a house on the Westside of Cincinnati. I called ZAKIRA'S, we went and looked, and the frame was bought.
Now, we are going to use that stock frame, to re-create the Hooker 99 with all the parts that are left of the "Early" version..

The picture with Babe Stapp in it with the 2 racing stripes is how it will be done.

 

Wow!

Amazing is all I can say.


Thanks Josh!

 

Wow!

Amazing is all I can say.


Thanks Josh!

 

Thanks for the reply, Michael. BTW, another source has told me that Lawrence was, in fact, the older brother of Dick Tobias. If I ever knew that I guess I had forgetten it.