am building a 27 t cpe w/z'ed frame in frontof cowel this cuts off another 3in of height for a radiator . the flathead needs all the rad. it can get. t was thinking of using the steering from a ford 8n tractor, it has no tierod, it has a pitman arm on both sides of the cowel, this way i can drop the rad behind the fr. crossmember to get taller rad. anyone don this????? what do ya think?????
are you going to put the whole bulkhead of the steering apparatus in there? I ain't saying it CAN'T be done, but rather I'd like to see someone set it up... hmmm...looks like it might be possible, and it IS old Ford stuff...if there's some reason it wouldn't be a good idea, someone here will chime in.
I've heard of guys trying it, but I hear it causes a lot of bump steer because of the dual drag links. Of course since there's no tie rod, its going to be really hard to run a steering dampener in an attempt to eliminate some of bump steer. Chip Foose is actually running this set up on the P32. I don't think his is the actual ford box but instead something they fabbed up....
hillbilly,the drawing is the 2n,9n steering, the late 8n is nuch improved and has adjustments on it. would take the whole box from tracter and remove some of excess castings then extend arms out each side of the cowel???
Let's think "tractor". If it had a road gear, it still was slow. Tractor steering is FAST. If you are going 70 on a freeway with a true push/pull tractor box, be real careful.
The later Ford tractors,from1953, were an improved design with a small base. Adjustable,parts availability is good. So maybe........................
i have an 8n and its great. but i dont think the stearing would be good for the roads of today. I would think it would be all over the place.
In theory it should work. As long as you have the correct Ackerman geometry and the correct geometry on your drag links I can't see why this set up would be any more prone to bump steer than any other set up. The practicality of doing it and the gearing issue is something I can't comment on. I have to admit that I've looked at the steering on my Ferguson tractor and had similar thoughts.
Top speed on my 8N is about 40mph in 4th and it is likes to hunt around at that speed. It's fast like iammarvin said. If you shorten the throw on the pitmans somehow it would help that. It's ponderously heavy though.
My roadster has a Schroeder box. Every time I jump on my Kabota tractor, I think that it might work on a roadster. It is smaller that the 8N box and looks like it might work.
Post this question over on the Vintage Sprint car thread, for some reason I think the tractor box may have been used on some dirt cars in the 1950's.
I've been into 8N tractors for years, and rebuild a lot of components, so I can comment a little on the steering boxes. The 8N early style box was used from '47-'49 and a better Spicer style box was used from '49 thru '52. Here's a picture, early style on the right. Avoid the early style like the plague. Terrible design, always has backlash you can't adjust out. The later style on the left is a very good box and can be adjusted to eliminate backlash. Travel on the steering wheel is 3-1/4 turns, lock to lock. Maximum travel at the pitman arm is about 1/4 turn. With the right length pitman arms you might get it to work out, but I don't know. Later steering boxes from '53 thru '64 are the same as the late 8N but have 1-2" longer columns. I've got a few in the shed awaiting rebuild. If you need measurements or other info just let me know.
Welcome to the HAMB Smitty, you may be our 8N expert.First vehicle I ever drove sometime in the early 1960's. Bob
I keep hearing bump steer I thought it was caused in conventional steering when the relationship between radius rod and the drag link were out of whack, or in cross steering the spring shackles were to to vertical.
I was thinking the same thing, but I won't call BS, 'cause maybe he's got one of those Flathead V8 conversions. I think a stock 8N would top out at around 20 MPH. Of course, when your steering is loose, and you're sitting between a couple of lug tires, it may seem like 40.
Might have a little soup in that one. Standard 8N at wide open throttle (2250 RPM) does 17.8 MPH. Add a Sherman or Hupp overdrive and you can get 23.5 MPH wide open. Bypass the governor and get the engine to crank out about 4 grand and a few more horses and you could see 40 mph. But not with me on it. Those big unsprung rear tires get squirrely about 25-30 mph.
Yep, my Ferguson (1955) is similar to an 8n,only with an overhead valve engine. Tops out at 15-17 mph and you have to pay a LOT of attention at that speed. I have to admit I've considered using a Ferguson box on a hot rod, but talked myself out of it.
Now were talking Amish hot rods. Around here they won't drive cars but they will make Ford tractors run 45-50 mph.
Boo, I have a 9N and have wondered the same thing. In my "working restoration" of this beast, I have determined that my steering leaves a lot to be desired. I simply posted that pic because they are similar. Still...it intrigues me, as does anything out of the ordinary. The application I envisioned was one where a person extended the shaft on one side, mounted the thing in the frame or slightly above where the steering arm would be just outside the cowl...as in a traditional setup...would be nifty if for some reason a person wanted RHD... If I'm reading you correctly, you're wanting to extend BOTH sides out and use drag links from there, and set it up a lot like it steers the tractor? That would be kinda neat to see...if it works. I've just never seen a 9N, 2N, or 8N with nice tight steering...unless you use the brakes to help steer it. Guess I just don't have one of them there Amish hot rods
i want to extend both sides out the sides of the cowel and steer like a tracter.w/no tierod. SMITTY said the later, 51-64 tracter steering can be adjusted to remove all the slop and play.
my bad kmph ( about 25 tops) I live in both a metric and imperial world and more often lately I don't switch seamlessly LOL! just a seat of the pants guess really. Still it is all over the place and I have relatively tight steering
I would guess that since there is no tie rod, ackerman would be figured out from the 2 steering arms that go to the drag links. Also any play in the box or drag links would affect the toe adjustment. Sounds like a nightmare to get that correct.
Frank Lockhart in the end of the 1920s built a race car to set the worldland speed record at Daytona beach & used duplex steering built by Ross. He achived speed over 200 mph before crashing to his death( not a fault of steering) leaving the land speed record with the English for over three decades.Duplex steering has been used in autos since the teens of the last century. I dont think however Ford tractor steering is sutible fo road going machines.
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