I'm posting this because I have to get this conversation out of my head. I've searched the forum but have yet to come up with any type of suitable answer. I currently have a really nice set of "canadian heads" or factory ford aluminum heads for a 59AB motor and was stoked to get them as they are in ready to run condition. However I've since acquired a Navarro intake and now have a reinforced urge to sell the heads and look into either a set of Navarro heads or Block letter Edelbrock heads.... am I crazy or what? The look I would like for the motor ('46 Flatty) would be early post war. Thoughts suggestions? The photo is of one of the heads I have currently....
I Would go for navarro heads over the edelbrocks. I too would like to put my hand up for those heads if you need to sell them to afford the Navarros.. (i think they are 200 dearer than the edelbrocks..But Id still go that way, matching heads and intake is always cool.) Ive got clearance issues on my car and cant fit Fat aftermarket heads..other wise I would go the Navarros too.
I have the same heads and will be running them, on the charts they get about 7.9:1. Also you should use a graphite gasket with those heads. Do a search under Bruce Landcaster to find the charts. I like the look of the ford aluminum heads with an early intake. here's my block.
Aluminum or Canadian heads are not Denvers...there were 3 Denver head models (note that Denver is in USA), all iron...I've posted the spec sheet CC's and Ford's computations of ratio for 221 and 239 engines. All are rare...I believe they were discontinued before the stock car racers discovered them! Some Ford paper I have specifies them for high altitude use or engines running on natural gas. All have "S" in the PN prefix, whick I think means something like Special. They were not used on any production vehicles, over-the-counter only. Some of the Canadian aluminum heads are a point or so higher comp than iron to compensate for the heat loss. Some Denver heads offer more, especially the 221 versions used on 239's. I think I've posted the CC's on the more common Canadians and all the Denvers...the smallest Denver had 60CC chambers on the spec list, and were listed as 8 to 1 when used on stock 239. The Canadian 7RA heads became popular for stock car classes requiring OEM heads, because Denvers have been unfindable forever. Speed companies imported probably the entire surviving stock of 7RA's and some of the scarcer late Model versions once upon a time.
Thanks for the insight Bruce, very informative. I've always wondered what defined a canadian from a denver head. I've updated my initial post.
Part numbers follow American practice, usually with C at front...C81A-6050, another A or B indicates variants, some came in iron and aluminum truck vs car... C21A -B is 1942 intro for 221 engine...and...Holy Cow! it is not in the Canadian Bible here, the most exhaustive collection of both Canadian and US heads I know of. That or there ain't no such head! Unusual item! From other heads, I'm guessing low 70's CC's. Since it is prewar, slightly different valve angle in block so first put on heads with no nuts and hand crank engine 720 degrees, watching for movement! If no trouble appears put on heads with nuts hand tight and put in clay to measure clearance at the very top edge of chambers and valves. Turn very slowly and stop IMMEDIATELY if you feel resistance...valves are very easy to bend. If you have issues a very slight and easy pass across those top edge areas of valve pockets in head will get you clearanc...Ford actually had a simple tool for this. Remember the two sides are slightly different, too. Very neat heads and apparently unusual!
Some reading about Barney Navarro would reveal the difference between his heads and Edelbrocks...Barney was far ahead of all the rest with swirl, flame travel, and quench. Other flathead enthusiasts have 'allowed' their preference for Offenhauser over Edelbrock. They bring up Leo Goosen and Indy, all the rich history, etc... uh, different Offenhauser.
My opinion, with no flowbench to back me up, is that original chambers will allow better flow, and are a good choice if your displacement allows you to get enough compression. Most aftermarket heads are severely lowered in the transition area.
Didn't the Weiand "cheater" heads have a bogus Canadian casting number on them in an effort to fake out the tech inspectors at tracks?
That is correct and they do not have "Made in Canada" cast on them, just "Canada" in the same position. They also have "NSN" cast on them below the water neck. The Weiand name is cast on the underside of the water neck and would be impossible to see once fitted to an engine.
Differences...chambers like finned W heads, rather crude casting compared to Canadian, usually only 2 of the 4 small water outlets drilled and tapped. I would have to search the Garage to be sure, but I think Weiand had lettering closer to original on some...my assumption is that they made close duplicates and removed a lot of stuff after getting a nasty letter fornm Ford. Ford did not have armies of lawyers squeezing every possible dollar from resto houses in those days but had very tight policies about bootleg replacement parts.
WOW thanks for the info on the heads Bruce, now I'm enamored about what I even have.... I do know they are not the weiand heads as the water outlets are drilled, tapped and clean as compared to the cheater heads that I have seen...
not mine etc. posted today FORD 59-AB CANADIAN ALUM HEADS N.O.S. - $550 (petaluma) http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/pts/2727704922.html N.O.S. PR CANADIAN ALUMIUM CYL HEADS C 7 RA 6050-B IN THE ORIG BOX FOR 59-AB 550.00 FIRM Mike 1-707-763 - 5158 . hot rod rat rod vintage auto parts flathead ford.
C91A-6050-B (I was reading 21A in the first pic) is early 221 (may need very minor clearancing) is 69-70 cc, 6.8 on 221 and 7.2 on 239 in the book C7RA-6050-B is postwar 239, same chamber size...and you need to examine to see if Weiand or Ford when you see one, as obviously all is different
I have to ask as well anyone know what these are going for these days? I'm thinking I'll be going with block letter edelbrocks....
I'm trying to figure out what these heads are. Swap meet find yesterday. I believe these are Cheater heads maybe, but not sure. What do I have here? Notice that the top one's water neck is machined down a little bit, and the bottom one's neck is smooth. Both have the same part number. I saw on the internet that the 6049 was the left side, and the 6050 was the right side. Which side carries both part numbers??? The top head in the picture below looks unaltered. The bottom head has been milled (compared to the top one) and the area over the valves opened up. I was told by an old stock car racer once that they would make them pull the heads to show that they weren't modified, so they would only mill one to increase performance a little bit, but have the stock one to pull and show the officials. They both have a little "C" in a circle, similar to the "copyright" symbol. Again, "cheater?" or "canada" And one says 79 in the top left corner... and one says 140 in the top left corner... The 140 head has the smooth water neck, but is the head that is milled. The 79 head has the stepped, or machined water neck, but is not milled.
El, I'm pretty sure those are an aftermarket suppler head, the Circle C being the manufacturer designation. I've got a 21 stud, center water outlet, aluminum head with the same logo, and the same shape "tits", part number on that is 78 6050 A which would be the designation for the '37 vintage parts. Mine has a 98 stamped in the corner. Chamber volume? Not sure. Mine has the water neck turned smooth. There is a shallow indent around the spark plug hole in the chamber, similar to your one head, but doesn't look quite as deep. If anyone sees this and has another '37 configuration aluminum head they'd part with I'm interested.
I've got a pair of 24 stud canadian aluminium heads here, can get some photos if anyone is interested. They are kind of dirty though.. do need a good clean. Have just purchased this single 21 stud head from the US and am looking for the other side, but does anyone know what the "HT" means on this head?
The Jalopy Journal
