Pic request: Shoebox with dropped uprights AND Aerostar coils

Hey fellas, I'm about to inherit my dad's '50 Tudor. Trust me, I'd much rather have him than any car! We can't stop the cancer, but I did promise that I'd get his shoebox done like he wanted.

We like 'em low, but driveable, and it seems like dropped uprights and Aerostar coils are the way to go. No air bags on this one, static drop and drum brakes, and the original 8BA built like it should be. The car is an original paint 56,000 mile survivor, and he wants it to look like his high school car.

Show us what you've got please!

 

Sorry to hear about your pop. Jump over to the shoebox group and check out the member pics. About half of them have Aerostar coils (mine included) and a few more probably go lower.

 

Sorry to hear about your dad. This is my Shoebox with the Aerostar coils with 1/2 a coil cut off and 3" blocks in the rear.

 

49Custom, thanks! I joined that group shortly after I posted this thread.

TudorFritz, thanks for the pic! Your shoe is BITCHIN'! Showed my wife the pic of your car and she said "Just like that! Only green and lower!" Damn I love her! LOL

Here's a few pics of the '50 as it sits in my dad's shop. It didn't lead a charmed life, but considering what "other" shoeboxes look like after 60 years this one looks almost pristine. Original paint, interior, bumpers etc.

There are some rust holes around the fenders and a dent under the driver's side taillight. They'll be repaired and sprayed in a color matched green, then I'll may clear the whole car to keep it just this way. That's what my dad always wanted to do.

The flathead is the original motor (I know, doesn't matter much) and it had a clean up bore (.030) and is not stroked. Still, it was built with all of the best stuff available (Red's adjustable lifters, Sheifer aluminum flywheel, etc.) and really only needs carbs and linkage to be complete.

So, what's the BEST way to get this front end down and retain the drum brakes? I'm all for dropped uprights/spindles and will probably go with Aerostar coils too. Advice?




Yes, the dice will disappear. My mom bought them for my dad for his red '32. He thinks the same thing about dice as most of us do... don't tell my mom!


Yes, the bongo drums will stay! I need to find a shrunken head to replace those dice on the mirror though!


MODS: This is kind of a double post between the main board and the shoebox group. If I need to take one of the two down I'd be happy to, just let me know.

 

My 49... with aerostar springs, and 2" blocks in back:


stock springs and shocks... (before the lowering)



The next part of the plan is to make it LOOK lower with lake pipes...

 

I lost my dad to the C also - got this '50 when I got tired of getting beat up by my TBucket - I'm trying to do it all as if it was done in the 50-60's. This is with 1 coil cut from the stock front coils and 2" blocks and the 2' leaf spring removed in back. Rides great still has the FH8 w/ 84,000 and OD. 20 year old laq paint and a blast to cruise in.

 

Mine is my avatar . No aerostar coils but it has bags,and it's a shoebox. I had dropped spindles etc, they work great . Fatman fab make a great product

 

car looks good! do your tres camber in at all?
and is removing the leaves as simple as it sounds? it sounds like unbolt them and emove two of them...?

heres mine with aerostar coils, 2'' blocks in back with saggy springs.
i've since removed the paint off the bumpers from the PO.

 

Looks bitchin' man, thanks for the pics!

I would have guessed your car was lower than that. Looks like you're running a smaller diameter tire than most, which would help it look lower. My dad graduated high school in '62 so he wanted it done like that too. That said, he and I would like to make it low (like his high school car) was without riding on 4 bump stops. That shit was okay in my mini-truck days, but my back/neck/kidneys can't handle it anymore.

Man I'll NEVER tire of seeing your shoebox! Do Fatman spindles work with drums or is it a disc-only conversion?

Another bitchin' shoe! Leaves are a cinch to pull. Probably the easiest mod to do to any suspension! Lift (and secure the car) undo the U-bolts, lift the rear end with a floor jack, remove center pin in springs and take out what you don't want. Reverse process and go cruisin!

 

Sorry about your loss, just had a similar one in our family. I am building a 50, working on the chasis now. Installed a Jamco rear suspension (2"drop on thier springs and 2" blocks). I am almost done with installing Fatman dropped uprights and aerostar springs in the front. Remaining issue is what shocks to use. I looked at the various build threads here and while the shock issue was discussed, I didn't find a definitive answer.

Remember, the stock shoebox front shocks mount top and bottem via threaded rods that extend out of the ends of the shocks.

Some say they used Monroe PN 5821 but while they have the threaded top mount, they use a cross sleve at the bottom that slips over the more typical horizontal stud. this means you would have to weld some sort of mount to the bottom of the lower A arm.

An article by Bret Vandervort (Fatman himself) recomends Monroe LE10001 (cross reference Gabriel 82026 and, if you want to spend a ton of $$, Blistein 24002837). These do mount like the originals via a threaded rod top and bottom.

I have also run accross recomendations to use the Monroe 5829 (Gabriel 69704).

Unfortunately, all the pictures seem to focus on the springs and uprights. I have not run accross any actually showing what shock they used and specifically, what the part number is, when dropped uprights and aerostar coils were used and how the ride turned out.

Now, it makes a difference which of these shocks one uses, because each has a different extension length, a different compressed measurement and therefore a different shock capacity.

Can someone who has actually installed/used the dropped uprights and aerostar springs give us some shock specifics?

 

Forgot to mention, that I can take pictures of the front suspension going together with the dropped uprights and aerostar springs and stay with the orignial question in this thread if wanted.

 

my brother has dropped uprights and aerostar springs....I believe he cut 1 coil on the aerostar springs but dont remember 100%, maybe he'll chime in

here's a pic (the black one)

 

Fat47, please post pics!

Supersized... please prod your brother over here. LOVE his shoebox, and maybe he can tell us what he did for shocks.

 

I had the Aerostar coil springs and I just finished installing my Fatman dropped uprights. 3 inch blocks and 2 leafs removed in the rear.

 

Dropped uprights and AeroStar coils up front. The rear is a stock ride height mono spring, flipped.

 

Gasser & Hoppy, these are PERFECT!

 

Sorry to hear about your Father Daddio.

I have been watching this thread and those are Awesome setups !! I will be doing the same with mine. What direction are you thinking of going on yours Daddio ?

 

Thanks man. He always intended to build the car he would have in high school, had he had the money. He and my mom graduated in '62 in Southern California, so just a mild custom with a reliable flathead, white tuck-n-roll, shrunken head on the mirror and bongos on the rear package tray, 12" glass packs, Fox Craft skirts, low all around, etc.

He wanted to fix the rust spots and the few dents, color match them, and spray clear over the whole car. All panels line up perfectly, the body needs so little to be perfect, but he did "one day" want to paint it that new VW bug metallic green.

The flatty is all built and ready to go in, but I need a few things to finish it first... Basically two carbs, linkage, two new water pumps, and good ignition. Already hace EVERYTHING else, including rebuilt generator, aluminum flywheel, re-cored radiator, Red's Headers, and more.

Goal 1 is to get the motor in and get it back on the road. I'll go through the trans, rear end, brakes and steering first of course. I'll have it on the road by spring.

Goal 2 is to get it DOWN! Winning Alex Gambino's contest would sure speed things up but I'm not holding my breath... I never win a damn thing, LOL.

Goal 3 is to do white tuck-n-roll with green piping.

Goal 4 is to fix the few body issues it does have and finish it off the way he wanted it.

This car will NEVER leave my family! My kids will know how much this car meant to their grandpa and will be sure its cared for appropriately.

I spent about 3 hours with my dad tonight. He slept almost all of that time, but I didn't mind. We talked a little about cars, guns, and which grandkids get which pocket knives. I'm going to miss him fellas, but keeping him alive in my heart will help ease the misery without him. I hope building his '50 will help the journey.

 

Given the go ahead from the threads initiator to post some pictures of upright (Fatmans) and spring (Aerostar) swap.

I had pulled the body off the frame last Winter and had the frame blasted. I then painted it with POR-15. I installed a JAMCO rear suspension (Springs, shackles, bushings and shocks) along with 2" lowering blocks. According to Jamco the Springs will drop the car 2" and, with the blocks, a total of 4". I could have gone with a 3 or 4" lowering block, but JAMCO warned me that I would have trouble with axle hitting the frame and probably the drive shaft on the tunnel. I will probably add a couple of inches to the tunnel just to be safe and give me the option to drop it some more after I get it back to gether and drive it a little. I did keep the stock rear end, although I have an extra 8" out of a 72 Mavrick just in case.

So, I wanted to drop the front at least 4" to go with the back. I thought about this quite awhile trying to decide on a subframe, M-II kit or dropped uprights. The previous owner had started to lower the front by reversing the uprights. I considered going ahead with this approach, but remembered from my High School days back in the late 50's that you had to heat and bend the stearing arms and that amost always left you with some sort of steering or tire problem. So, I ordered a Fatman dropped upright set up, complete with a disc brake conversion. I drive the crap out of my cars so I wanted good handling and good brakes.

I had removed the front suspension to blast the frame, so the first order of busines was disasembling it and cleaning it up. Remove the big bearing nut, slip off the retaining washer, remove the drum. Then remove the 4 bolts that hold the backing plate to the spindle. Slide off the backing plate and the retaing plate. Then you can remove the upright. The picture shows the parts you will no longer need.

I jumped ahead a little because I had the suspension already out. The key to removing all of the suspension is dealing with the spring compression and removal. If you have the body and engine still on the frame you will have enough weight to use a jack to hold the A-arms in place while you remove the Upright and then you can let the jack down slowly, with a jack stand under the frame, to let the spring out. Since I had the car and engine off the frame, I used a long piece of all thread that I welded a 4" piece of round tubing to one end of to form a T which I then stuck up through the middle of the spring from the bottom A-arm as a replacement for the shock I had already removed. Put a big washer on the all thread where it comes through the top hat and a nut and tighten it down to keep the spring compressed. Remove the upright and back off the nut on the all thread allowing the spring to decompress. Remove the all thread and let the spring fall out.

Backing up a little again, the upright is held in place by a threaded piece at both the top and the bottom to the A-arms. They will have grease zerts in the ends of the nuts/sleaves. These nut/sleaves are threaded externally, to screw them into the A-arms and internally to thread onto the retaining bar. You will have to put some pressure on these nut sleaves to remove them. The bottom nut sleave is actually used in aliining the front end. You will see, once you remove it that it is oblong so when you turn it, you change the angle of the wheel.



ATTACH]1498934[/ATTACH] Below is a picture of the stock upright with the Fatman dropped upright and the stock steering arm with the Fatman arm. I don't know why it ended up as an attached thembnail. The stock parts are on the left. You can see how the dropped upright is the reverse of the stock one.

Here is a picture of the stock spring and the new aerostar spring ($60 for the pair at NAPA)

You can see how the Fatman upright and the aerostar spring will result in quite a drop.

I had cleaned up the A-arms and reinstalled them. Actually cleaning up all the suspension parts was the most time consuming and nastiest part of the job so far.

I am waiting on the spring insulators, the rubber gasket like part that goes on the top of the spring to keep it from squeeking against the underside of the top hat, to arrive. They should be here by mid week. I will post more pictures as I put the suspension back together and add the disc brakes.

If you have questioins, you can post here or contact me directly.

 

I ran my pop around to all his treatments for the last year before we lost him to cancer. I got to see him every day and it (kinda) prepared me for him not being there. He had the answer to every guestion j asked about cars, spend every minute you and your kids can with him. He knows the shoebox is in good hands with you and the grandkids!

 

Fat47, thanks for the info. Please continue adding info as you get more done! Sorry for my delay in replying, my father passed last week and I tried to spend as much time with him as possible before his passing, and then helped my mom with the funeral arrangements over the past several days.

Slddnmatt... I did the same. He is so sorely missed, but I'm doing okay. My mom and two older sisters are doing pretty well too, considering. We are all very close and that helps a lot!

My shoebox will never leave the family! It will be a family heirloom forever!

 

I could never get a definitive answer on the shocks to use in the front with dropped uprights and aerostar springs on HAMB. I ask the tech line at the Shoebox store and they recomemded Monroe 5751. They said they had had really good luck with them. I checked them out at my local NAPA and the length and travel seemed to be good. I picked up a pair yesterday and will try them in the front suspension rebuild.

We started bolting in the dropped uprights today using the aerostar springs. I will post pictures of the reassembly after we get it back together tomorrow.

 

Daddio Sorry for your loss Keep us posted on the progress Mike

 

if you read " TECH: Johnny1290's Po-Boys Shoebox Ford Builder's Guide "

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5880533#post5880533

you will find "Johnny1290" and myself recommended Monroe shocks part #5821
I have installed both the aerostar springs and the uprights and I used the Monroe shocks and it rides great.


all the best!

 

Bookmarked... Being in the "C" club survivor club sucks....
Continue on the way your Pop would've wanted you to....
Sorry for your loss.

 

No camber problem, 1 leaf fell out while I was installing the blocks - it had broken - so I removed the other one to match.

 

So, I will post pictures tomorrow of the reassembly. A little frustrated tonight. Just once, I would like to buy an after market part that actually fit. Had to take the both of the Fatman steeting arms off a dozen times. Holes didn't line up with the original backing plates on the spindles. Called Fatman's to see if redrilling the arm or reaming out the holes was OK. I didn't want to screw up the geomety. A minute into the conversation, I realized the guy I was talking to didn't have a clue. He ask me if the 50 Ford was a front or rear steer. I went ahead and reamed out the holes in the spindle plate. Then the welds on the steering arm hit on the uprights producing limited turning ratios for the spindle. More grinding.

Finally, got the suspension together and thought I would go ahead and mount to caliper brackets. They neclect to tell you that if you have already tightened up all the bolts to mount the steering arms, you will have to take them back out to mount the brackets. So, I reverse part of the process so I can bolt in the brackets. Not even close. I am going to have to grind off 1/4-3/8's of an inch to get the mounting holes to line up. And grind out the notch behind one of the bolts because it is also off 3/8's of an inch.

Who the hell designs this stuff?

 

View attachment 1511853 This is the simple tool I mentioned earlier for compressing springs. A length of all thread with a cross bar welded to one end. Insert the aerostar spring in between the A-arms. Then slide the spring compresser in from the bottem, through the spring, just like inserting the shock. Leave the shock plate bolted to the bottem A-arm so the cross piece on the all thread has something to give it support. Be sure the end of the spring on the bottem side is in the grove in the bottom A-arm and that the rubber insulator is positioned on the top of the spring so that it fits around the circular lip in the top A-arm. Put a washer or two on the all thread that you have poked through the tophat hole where the shock would mount. Add a nut and tighten it slowly, making sure the spring stays in place.

Before you start to install the upright, be sure to pull the rubber gaskets that hold the grease in the upright sleeves over the ends of the A-arms. Be sure you push them back behind the A-arm holes. You can pull them forward and over the upright sleeves after the sleeves are mounted. The top ones look like a 1" piece of heater hose. The bottom ones like a 1/4" spacer. The bottom ones are a bitch, but they will goe over the ends of the lower A-arm.

Once you have the spring snuged up with the all thread, install the dropped upright in the top A-arm. Pull the rubbber over the ends of the A-arm so they are now on the trunion sleeve. Now, tighten the all thread until the bottom A-arm comes up to where you can install the threaded piece through it and the sleeve that goes through the bottom upright mounting.

BE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT SLEEVE ON THE TOP AND BOTTOM. THEY ARE DIFFERENT. THE TOP SLEEVE IS OVAL AND THE GROVE DOES NOT GO COMPLETELY AROUND THE SLEEVE. IT HAS THE BIG NUT MACHINED ON ONE END. THIS IS USED TO ADJUST THE ALIGNMENT. THE ROUND SLEEVE WITH THE GROOVE COMPLETELY AROUND IT GOES ON THE BOTTOM.

ALSO, BE SURE THAT YOU USE THE CORRECT THREADED PIECE THAT GOES THROUGH THE SLEEVES AND THE A-ARMS HOLDING THE UPRIGHT IN PLACE. THESE ARE ALSO DIFFERENT. ONE IS HELD ON WITH A CASTLE NUT AND A COTTER PIN.

NOTE THESE DIFFERENCES WHEN YOU DISASSEMBLE THE SUSPENSION IN THE BEGINNING

View attachment 1511854 This is what you should end up with.

View attachment 1511858 Next, you want to install the spindle. BE SURE THE CURVED PART OF THE SPINDLE PLATE IS AT THE TOP. Slip the rod up from the bottom, through the upright, the spindle and the spindle bearing. Be sure the groove on the rod, will line up with the hole for the tappered pin. Tap the pin in from the back.

Now you can install the steering arms. The holes in the steering arms did not match up with those in the bottom of the spindle plate. I had to ream them. I also had problems with the welds on the steering arms stopping the turning capability of the spindle on one side and had to grind it quite a bit.

View attachment 1511859 The triangled attachment plate for the calipers is bolted to the top holes on the spindle plate. The caliper bracket then is bolted to the top hole of this triangled plate and the bottom forward side of the spindle plate. This is where I stopped because the hole on the caliper bracket did not line up with the one on the bottom forward side of the spindle plate. I will have to do a lot of grinding to get them to line up.

 

Sorry, the pictures didn't upload the first time.

Picture 2 and 3 are reversed in order of explination in prevous post

 

If you look closely, you can see the arrows on the tape on the caliper bracket pointing to where I had to grind off about 3/16" and then elongate the bottom hole to get it to fit. The hole probably would have lined up if I could have ground off another 1/8", but that wouldn't have left much distance between the hole and the edge

Bracket mounted after grinding and reaming the hole

This is the Monroe 5751 that I will be using.

Will bolt on the rotors and calipers after Christmas and finish reassembling the steering.