I love these threads! I do learn a little more every time I read them though. Next they'll be makin' us drink it!! You know what I like, I can make alcohol my self. 10 gallons in the car, 1 gallon in my bottle. Corn kills you any way. Remember those children?
Again, you are ignorant of the truth. We are there, as a matter of fact the enzymes for all of that were developed and are produced here in NC. Plenty of other countries that produce ethanol stay away from corn as it if not efficient. Brazil produces about 87% of the worlds ethanol from sugercane, much more efficient and cost effective than corn. They've been doing ethanol/gas blends since '76. Yes there is some overlap but I do not agree with you. Corn is the wrong crop, but ethanol is good, and we are ready to produce with any bio mass.
Study a little bit more. There is a company out here producing ethanol from logging waste. The slash piles would have been burned in the past, now it is raw material that mother nature irrigates. Our pine forests here and throughout the West are decimated by the Pine Beetle. Billions of tons of raw material. If we can get this technology going on a larger scale the future looks amazing
zman, tman or anybody else, can you answer a question for me? If farmers are growing corn (and other possible ethanol materials), does that deplete the soil after awhile? Do they still rotate crops? I've heard arguments that so many farmers are switching to corn for ethanol that it's driving up other farm products, cost because the supply is less. I have a shirt tail relation in Nebraska that made a fortune off farm subsidies years ago. Is it more profitable to actually grow corn now than to get paid not to? And I'm asking this as an ignorant city boy, not to be a smart ass.
As a side note, when Brazil went heavy into sugar-cane Ethanol in the late 1970s, Ford's answer to making its engines ethanol compatible was to nickel plate the carburetor, bump up the compression, and add dual exhausts! Sounds good to me. About a year ago, I toured the ethanol plant here in town and they were very gungho about using corn cobs for biomass. That would not only serve the politically expedient goal of subsidizing American farmers, but should relieve any concerns that potential food is going to make fuel. -Dave
I know here in NC there are still farmers paid to not grow, and I think that's bullshit. But the farmers that actually farm rotate the cash crops through different fields to try and not deplete the soil or put a bunch of chemicals and fertilizer on them. When rotating the crops is the smarter thing to do. And there are subsidies on the growing of corn for ethanol, in NC that is only eclipsed by cotton. Tobacco subsidies were the big thing here for a long time, but that has subsided. But ethanol production in NC is still largely corn based due to the subsidies available. I think if those subsidies were taken away we'd see more from other sources. I know this doesn't exactly answer your question but it does explain somewhat what I see here. The "free government money" seems to be the issue to moving to more efficient crops.
Zman, I know you can make ethanol from lots of stuff, but here it's primarily corn. That's what I don't agree with and we seem to be on the same page with that. So I'm not sure what you're going on about. Regarding Brazil, they have plent of problems of their own, and the whole sugar cane approach is not without significant cost or controversy. Tman, I agree that using logging waste and similar material would be great, if you "can get this technology going." But I'm not aware of that happening anywhere on a large scale. Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with ethanol, just the current government approach.
Growing crops depletes the soil. Matters not what the crop is. The secret is to maintain fertility through crop and field management. Crop rotation is a huge help in maintaining fertility. Continuous corn was popular way before ethanol came on the scene. In fact, ethanol was initially proposed to use up excess corn, brought about by continuous corn production. I think that most midwestern farmers will grow continuous corn or maybe corn and soybeans, because of the cost of equipment to raise other crops and the lack of a local market structure for something different, say sugar beets, potatoes, rye or two row barley. If it was more profitable to not grow corn, no corn would be planted. Is that what you were looking for? Bill
THEY ARE MAKING US DRINK IT NOW!!!! In Minnesota! That's why we like it! You can run your car on this stuff... Look Here> http://cvec.com/index.cfm?preset=glacialgrainspirits
There are 2-3 companies and at least 1 pilot plant running in this area. Very interesting tech. Also, large refineries may not be needed. A few years ago they re-opened a 100+ year old plant in Lusk Wyoming. I say plant because it is the size of a garage. They proved that the older refining technology was still viable on a smaller scale. With the current legal enviroment in building a new large refinery or pipeline (we have both happening here) smaller local or regional distillers may be the way of the future. Much as it was 50-100 years ago. Lots to think about and a good topic over a cold one.
cow corn, have you ever tried eating that stuff, geez, its not food for people, maybe it get ground up into something people can eat, i see in Canada only 1/2 of ethanol is made from corn the rest is pretty much wheat.
Ditto........ Hate to get off HAMB topic here, but I've had to start purchasing rolls of fuel line and primer bulbs for 2 cycle maintenance equipment by the dozen! It's destroyed all our high $$$ saws. There is a basket full of carbs at the counter where we buy all our parts that have been required to be replaced, most under warranty. We've been using over the counter additives to our gasoline and draining after each use, but we still pack bulbs and line to carry on us as we leave the door so we can replace in the field. Cars are one thing, but this small engine stuff simply is not ready for E-85. Tom S. in Tn.
Running E85 in small engines? Thats 85% ethanol 15 gas. Sure you know what you are talking about? My small engines have been running E10 for 15 years with no issues.
I don't know who or what to believe, but here's an interesting article and comment about the article: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2006/tc20060519_225336.htm Nickname: citizen49a Review: This article is full of misinformation and disinformation. Do a little research of your own on the history of ethanol. You'll find that ethanol was used as a fuel in engines before gasoline. Gasoline was (and is) a waste product from the oil industry, which makes it's real money off all of the other products produced from petroleum. If you bother to do the research you'll find out that the 19th ammendment to the Constitution prohibiting the production and use of alcohol in the United States was passed in large part due to funding that Rockefeller Standard Oil industry supplied to the Womens Temperance League. It was an easy way to get rid of the competition. There's so much more to this story than what's reported here, but for a start consider that 1) ethanol can be produced from lots of plants besides corn. 2) anybody can produce ethanol in their backyard with a simple still, in fact everybody did back around the turn of the century. That's the reason that Henry Ford championed ethanol as a fuel and the reason that the original model A ran on either ethanol or gasoline. But don't take my word for it. Check it out. Or don't and continue to believe the propaganda. Date reviewed: Aug 30, 2011 8:19 PM
Smaller displacement - to use less alky, high compression - to get higher hp to compensate for the smaller displacement. Was recently in Mich and burned old wood, laying around from a 10 acre parcel, constantly for over a week. Would have loved to used the btu's from that wood to run a still. I've seen stills for sale on Ebay. Isn't there a HAMB'r out there doing something like this. I'll never forget a HD Sportster all pumped up running on alcohol - it was music to the ears! If corn is being depleted for food, maybe they will take it out of dog food as I've heard corn is not good for dogs - if it's not good for dogs, maybe I should stay away from eating it too and feed it to my jalopy instead.
Bitch, bitch, bitch, moan, moan, moan, whine, whine, whine! I live up in the great white north, we've had ethanol blends forever, no big deal. This is a traditional site, with that in mind, remember that Henry Ford originally championed ethanol as a fuel back in the day! Yeah, making it from corn is not the perfect solution, but most of the bs about it is just that, bs! Basically, any biomass can be converted to alky, right now, it's more convienent to use corn. The thing that bothers me these days is that everyone is quick to play the blame game and have major pity-parties about both real and percieved problems and issues, but seem to lack in offering solutions. This is on both the right and left, when we ALL need to work together for the greater good! As far as ethanol goes, we, as a demographic, are some of the most adaptable, ingenious group of people there are, we take what the general populus thinks of as trash, and turn them into operating improvements over the original designs! That being said, adapt, turn on the thought process and deal with what we are given. Sorry about the long winded soap box, but I've gotten so sick about hearing all the complaints about everything, without solutions offered. We now resume regularly scheduled programming!
Interesting historical article regarding commercial sales of E10 back in the 1930s. (BTW we also called it gasohol when it became widely available in the 1980s in Iowa - yes, 1980s!). http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/exhibits/tribune/08/wf_0847.htm
Although true that Ethanol is wreaking havoc on vehicles 2008 and older. Its effects on cars that are as old as what we deem "On Topic" here is usually relegated to just rubber items such as fuel lines and aluminum items like carbs. However there is a solution that I don't know if it has been mentioned as of yet. There is a website that will tell you where you can purchase "Ethanol Free" gas almost anywhere in North America. I know... I use it all the time. Here's the link, put it in your favorites: http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY
Is this in all gas stations? Here in Florida where I live I haven't noticed any problems yet. Then again yet
A buddy of mine's 6 duces on his SBC turned to white powder on the inside. The car has been together since '91 with absolutely no problems until he took it out of storage this year. This guy is also a long time alliance H.A.M.B. member and some of his buddies have had similar problems.
I´m running E 10 in all my cars, no problems ever. E10 is only 95 octane over here, so it´s ok for highway use. If i want to go fast or race in my 34 or 56 Chevy with 10.5: 1 respectively 11:1 cr I´m running 98, 100 or 102 octane E5, what keeps them from pinging. But that´s only necessary if I rev them over 4500rpm.
The Jalopy Journal
