Inline guys: 235 woes and questions

I dont know why I didnt copy/paste it before, but I have a build page. DUH!

It has pics and videos. The video on the last page is the most recent with the rebuilt 235. It was runnin straight pipes at the time. Im always messing with sound. Currently it has a set of glasspacks that I cut open and removed all the packing and welded back together.

Anyways, check out the pics and videos and tell me what you think as far as how the motor sounds and drives. Thanks!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=479046

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Well I'll be a son of a gun! He's back!

 

Monster,
Maybe you could hook up with a fellow HAMBer that has a 235 and go for a ride to see how yours compares? Maybe you were just expecting too much from the 235?? Just a thought, sounds like you have covered everything else?

Rob

 

FWIW, track down a Carter YF for a Chevy 235, they're 100 times better a carb than the Rochester, no leaks, will even give you a little better fuel economy. That should help some.

 

its the dummy pipes slowin ya down!!!!! If they arent hooked up get rid of em, and trust me you will want ear plugs if you do hook em up!!! Try the multi carb setup, lots of people selling them in the classifieds, just look you will be happy. I will tell you this though, if you are running bias ply tires you might not wanna hit 70+, I did that last year with the wrong shocks and brown undies were in fashion that day!!!! Just remember its a 6, it is an old 6 when car were not meant to hit 120 on the highway for fun, besides what the hell is the fun of always being in such a rush??? Slow down, put a stereo in the car, grab a cigar and yer old lady and cruise!!!!!

 

I am leaving for the Hunnert in a few hours and i will be sure to get you better data, I know as long as I stay off the gooooo pedal I average 18-20 mpg, and I will let ya know what type of speed and rpm later.

 

Sounds that way to me too. My 235 with dual rochester B's, Fenton intake, split stock exhaust, 2" pipes w/turbo mufflers, 261 cam, .080" overbore, and mild head porting runs like a scalded dog. I run the stock column shift 3 speed with a 3:55 gearset and there's no way I would put a T5 there and give it the same personality as my POS S10 winter beater.

Skip to the last minute of this 3 minute video for a highway ride in mine:

http://youtu.be/7v8Fs7DYAMA

 

thanks for the videos.

Robleticia, that was my thought. I know of a guy thats local and runs these old 53-54 cars all the time. Ill call him to see if hes up to driving my ride with me.

Check out the link here to the last page in my thread for the lastest video

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=479046&page=6

im going to do some freeway drivin later this weekend just like curt did in his mighty fine sounding truck, and post it up and see what you all think.

 

I had a 235 in a 62 pickup that would fry the tires, it was responsive, snappy and all out wonderful. Single carb, single exhaust, solid lifter cam that was loud as hell.. The three speed came out of a later model pickup BUT the rear had a 4:11 gear set. Which I bet would wake yours up something nice...or even a 3:73? 55mph and plus was a strain but bareable and around town more than made up for it.

I've got a 250 for my 52, mated to a borg warner five speed, if you adapted a s10 five speed and added a deeper gear set you'd be very very happy.

 

i have a 54 bel air. all stock engine, lake pipes, single carb. it ran fine on the freeway at 60-65. it's a stock 3 speed. it's a sluggish take off at red lights but not that sluggish. definately have to shift out of 1st before i get thru the light, by the time i'm going 35-40 i gotta be in 3rd.

 

Someone mentioned early in your thead, Patrick's auto parts. You said the guy could not find hyd. lifters. I have a truck 1953 with a Howard cam and hyd. lifters dual carb split manifold 355 rear with a 4 speed. My truck passes most modern area cars on the highway at will. It doesen't hurt that Malcolm Durham built my motor however the compression is low I use regular gas. A full oil pressure 235 is a great running engine.

 

Those old 3 speeds always were talkitve in first and second,3rd should be dead quite. Hell the 3 speed in my 65 Ranchero is nosiey in 1&2 and it is in good shape.

 

Not to highjack your thread, but inline I was curious what your truck runs at for rpm doing 70 with the gear ratio?

 

I forgot to mention that I have a 4 speed in the floor with a 355 gear in the rear all this with the torque tube. Runs the highway like it was born there. I got the entire set up from patrick's and everything fit no machining. Patrick builds them everyday and knows them.

 

I just remembered something.

If you've swapped the cam, the replacement could be ground wrong.

I read somewhere that pretty much every stovebolt cam is a bit retarded from the factory. If the regrind was out of whack on an already out of whack core, the cam could be severely retarded and would hurt your power output a fair bit.

Did the cam get degreed when it was installed?

Shawn

 

Shawn, not sure if the cam was degreed, but youre right, it was the original cam (from what I can tell) and it was a regrind.

Ill definately run the car here soon with some video and have by brother man the cam. This way you can see the gauges and tach and what not. Ill post the vid clip here as soon as I get it done.

I was curious what you all had to say about the hydraulic lifter situation. The machinist was so dead set on not running hydraulic that hed sold me on the idea of staying with solids. If I was to find a good set of hydraulic lifters with a good reputaion, what cam would you recommend?

JohnEvans, my 3 speed sounds nice and nostalgic in 1 and 2 but also in third. Like I said before, its a shame theres no overhaul kits for these, or Id freshen it all up.

 

I honestly can't give you an opinion one way or another on the hydraulic vs solid debate.

The three 261 powered cars I have are all hydraulic motors (Canadian cars) and I haven't had any troubles with them.

The 261 that's going in my HA/GR will get a solid lifter cam when it gets swapped out simply because this is what everyone has recommended and I prefer solid lifters just for the simplicity.

The only reason my cars have hydraulic lifters is because the factory installed them and they still seem to be working fine.

If you're shopping for a hydraulic grind cam, I'd ask the cam shop. I generally use whatever the cam grinder reccomends. I don't grind cams but I did stay at a holiday inn.

Solid lifters will make a bit of noise just because of the clearances in the system. It's not a bad noise, it's just operating noise. If solids aren't making a little racket then your valves are probably too tight.

The trans noise in third is probably input bearings. Third is direct, in and out so it won't be worn gears making the noise. You could probably source new bearings just by the numbers on them.

{edit}

Just watched the video on your build thread. The engine sounds pretty good, the transmission sounds much quieter than mine does in 1st or 2nd but I'm sure mine is pretty worn out.

Perhaps some input from a vacuum gauge will help out a bit more.

Or you're just used to more hp than a stovebolt six can provide. I keep telling a guy I work with that his diesel pickup feels just like my gas powered truck if I left the parking brake on

Shawn

 

I had to reread your opening post to see if you had the '53 mill or the later ('55-62). I'm thinking you might need more ignition advance. If you are still on 6v, best you can do is advance the timing until its hard to start - then back it down 2 degrees or so. With 12v, you could go as far as 10-12, but you'll need to step up to mid-grade (89) at the pump. I'm at 10 with a mild 3/4 cam (260/.450" lift) in my '57 - pings slightly on take-off at times, with 87 gas. Runs dang good, considering its still sucking through the stock carb and intake. I have a Clifford intake I want to try a 2-bbl from a 283 - just need to make a mounting plate and set-up the bottom cavity for water heat, as I'm running Clifford shorty headers. Water heat REALLY makes a difference in off-idle performance!!!

I haven't tried the progressive 2-bbl carbs Tom Langdon (Stovebolt Engine Co.) sells, but have talked with a couple of guys that were quite pleased with them. The Fenton intakes look to be much more effective than the Offy, better looking too. Short of a cam change, looks like a dual intake would be 'bout the only way towards getting a few more beans out of that stocker. A 4-bbl would be overkill, plus Clifford is pretty f-ing proud of his intakes and stuff - his prices are NOT of this planet...

If you stay with the Pertronix, keep the points and condenser in the glovebox - their QC isn't what it used to be. A club buddy has had several issues with their products. Langdon also has a HEI available for the 235 - just gotta find the time to put mine in!

Gotta bear in mind Chevrolet was like a baby birdie when it came to sixes - cheap-cheap-cheap. CHEAP to manufacture, CHEAP to operate, CHEAP to repair. All of them lacked decent airflow in stock form compared to a SBC - with the exception of the Atlas that the Trailblazers used (4.2 - 270 HP). Keep posting with updates and GOOD LUCK!!!

- Tim

 

If it was a hydraulic cam to begin with and you put solid lifters on it, you probably need a new cam & lifters.

 

Yeah, the SBC and the Atlas that was available in 1953 really flowed well

What does 6v vs 12v have to do with the amount of ignition advance he can run?

 

If you want that thing to seem faster, drive an older one with the 216. Then it will seem like a v8 when you hit the pedal!

 

These guys, and Langdon's and Inliners International online have some good info and parts.
Some days I too feel like hackin up my all original 46 fleetline and go ahead and drop in some smooth v8 power, but the ghost of original sixes on my shoulder(plus my buddies and this site) gives me a hard time, one day I may knock him off!
If there's any doubt that anything's wrong with your motor: My 46 is bone stock-216 splasher,3 tree, 4.11 rear, stock tires. I can cruise relatively comfortably at 55-60max mph,but I've run short periods at 65-70 (feels like 165!) but it will do it.

 

My 216 will do what he's asking. Its been on many 4 hr+ road trips at 65 70mph..somethings not right.

 

My 216 will do what he's asking. Its been on many 4 hr+ road trips at 65 70mph..somethings not right.

Lone star Mopar,
What driveline is behind your 216? I'm wondering if I/he can push ours to 65 for a long period? I know anything can blow at any time......just asking.

 

6v systems lack cranking power - unless you cheat 'em up with an 8v battery, then the starter will spin like a 12v. A stocker just doesn't breath worth a durn, so any improvements in a bigger or more carbs, bigger cam (within limits for the street - 264 duration), dual exhaust with headers or Fentons. Pocket porting the intakes helps port flow and can be done cheaply by a shop or at home Not only HP increases, but MID-RANGE TORQUE - where the sixes really shine. I built my first 235 as a teenager back in 1978 with a cam and headers from Jack Clifford for my '53 truck, still have them both. RIP, Jack.

- Tim

 

Monster: If your trans is nosiey in 3rd sounds like you need to put some bearings in it as bearings will be pretty much the cause of 3rd gear noise.

 

UPDATE!

I drove the 53 to work today and noticed the brake pedal wasnt going down as far as it usually does. Usually goes about 1/2 way pedal distance. I recently did a brake job just cause they were getting too thin. However those original brakes would throw you through the windshield and stop NOW! Very touchy. Since the new brake install, they seemed to stop less aggresively, yet stopped really good. However the pedal would vary at different times as far as how far the pedal would depress. Most of the time it would go half way, but other times it hardly moved at all.

Well today, I was coming back home from work and it seemed like the car was labored under acceleration. I went to a store and when backing out of my stall, it was like I was pulling another car out of a ditch! What the hell?? So I get it home and decide to back into the garage. It was bad. I got it in the garage and shut it down. Noticed it wasnt in all the way so threw it into neutral and began to push it back like Ive done many times. Nope. Not budging. Had my brother come out and we both dug our backs into the grill and pushed it back. Touched the lug bolts. Jesus! Smelled just like DRAGGING BRAKES.

So it sounds like Ive maybe found out one of my problems, but heres my question. When going through the only service manual for these cars (pretty sad theres not a newer version), the pictures are limited. When I did by brake job, I noticed that there was no metal flange (sometimes called a pawl or adjuster lever) that jabs into a tooth on the star wheel (or sprocket). Theres no picture of it in my book, and I called my local parts dude at 'Old Car Parts' (specializing in 49-54 chevy stuff, and specializing in inlines exclussivly) and asked him what he thought. He said there was no pawl on these cars. I said what keeps them from just getting looser or tighter? He really didnt have a good answer and said maybe I should wrap on some thread tape.

Have any of you guys experienced this? I really dont like the idea of not having a pawl in there. All 4 wheels were hot and smelled. Im just lucky I didnt catch anything on fire on my drive home.

Are there any modern brake set ups that can go onto this without braking the bank, like off of a 55-62? Or can a pawl be adapted to this drum brake system? Thanks in advance!

Oh, yes, I converted to 12 volts with 2/o gauge cables. Starts under one revolution.
It was an original solid lifter motor, at least thats what was in it when I tore it down.

By the way, I really paid attention to my trany noise today and it is not noisy in third like I had thought. It is very quiet, sorry for that. 1 and 2 sound good I guess. Not sure if they moan more or less than they should, but theres not mechanical failure sounds or damage sounds or vibrations. Im running 85-140 weight in the gearbox.

Oh, also just for info, I completely removed the entire emergency brake and rod, incase youre thinking it may be that. I needed more room for my headers, so Ill install a floor mount one in some time soon after a trip to the junkyard.

 

The brakes are just good old non-self-adjusting brakes.

Parts catalog shows that the newest application for those shoes is the 1962 Corvette, I'm not sure if it has self-adjusters if it does, you could probably retrofit the hardware.

If not, they're 11" x 1.75" drums, try digging up another chevrolet application that uses shoes that size and has self adjusters and swap the whole thing over. You might need to modify your backing plates or use backing plates from the self-adjusting application.

Shawn

 

The spring that connects the bottom of the shoes together also rests on the star wheel to keep it from turning by it's self. If you insist a slef adjuster kit for 66 up Chevy car rear should put you in biz. Note :you may need to drill or inlarge a couple of holes in the shoe . Use a shoe from whatever car the kit fits for a template. Manual adjust systems work just fine,just a extra maintance step every 5-10K miles.

 

Sounds like the dragging brakes might be your problem. I got my first speeding ticket in my Dad's 57 sedan delivery with a 235 I6 3 on the tree. 85mph. It didn't have a tach so I can't say what the engine was turning but it would take the speedometer over 100. My Dad drove it back and forth from Eau Claire to Milwaukee every week for about 6 months. 75 mph for 4 hours.

Dad had a 50 Chevrolet pickup with a 6 cylinder that he pulled a 40 foot mobile home from Wisconsin to West Virginia and back.