Bad news for owners of Brookville bodies

You are correct sir.

 

The whole thing started when Boyd went on his T.V. program and was stamping the repo rails with original frame numbers, the federal goverment found out and raided his shop, an amnesty program was offered by Calif. for people to re-registerer their vehicles correctly, I belive the amnesty ran out in January. The chair person for the meeting was Anna Wong, she was one of the members of the air resourse board, she held the meeting and was taking imput from the different car clubs and people present at the meeting, legaly , an asembled reproduction body and frame is a kit car , just like the shelby cars, camaros and 57 chevy reproduction bodies and thus has to meet the same requierments as those cars, it's just that we got away with it for a long time. From what I heard , she seemed receptive and took alot of notes. My computer skills are terrible so If some one could e-mail her at [email protected] and find out more facts ,it would be apreciated, from what I heard the meeting got very heated, the fact that we put very little milelage on our cars and don't really cause a carbon foot print was brought up and noted by her,People are free to e-mail and give their imput, just try to be polite and always give a reason for your arguement.

 

I don't understand how they can enforce or even catch you with 50 different sets of motor vehicle registration laws and most inspectors out there not going to have the slightest idea how to tell the repop '32 Ford, or '57 Chevy, or whatever steel body from an original. Or if you put a car back together with repro quarters/floors/etc., but the roof, cowl, and one door are original. Some states just take what you tell them and don't even verify the number is on the car - and even those that do, like I said, how would they tell? Would they even care, so long as you pay the taxes and fees? Use an original frame and as long as the numbers match and the repro body isn't marked anywhere as such and it's a near impossibility to determine. Especially if you start with a donor car for your chassis that has clear paperwork on it. Without getting into a political side discussion, look at all the things the Feds can't or won't enforce - I have a hard time believing they're going to spend too much time and money on this.

 

Mazooma

Hey did you know that there is a Swahili word that sounds like that. it means Our money. yea I know off topic I just wanted to throw that out there.

Anyway I would think that for the overwhelming majority of us at least as we focus on the concept of this message board, all this would be a non-issue. We for the most part prefer to build old cars with as many original old parts as we can get our hands on.

I think where it becomes an issue would be where we cross into a gray area, perhaps we are using a home built chassis. In that case where the numbers are on the chassis and not the body that could be a problem but it already is a problem nothing new.

The info was second hand at best but I found it interesting that GM was represented and offered to sell the new E Rod engines to the folks and that Hot Rod was also represented, a magazine that toutes the E Rod engine. Sounds a little bit like "lets "Scare up" some business"", to me.

 

it soumds way familiar...only it`s the europeans messing with our laws...why can`t they just leave us the hell alone...I`m sick of this pseudo green/tax grabbing, one size fits all bullshit...at least your representatives listen to you folks and you have half a chance of kicking it into the long grass.

 

It is a bunch of technical BULLSHIT!!!.......It's all about taxes, The states are tired of losing out on millions in taxes because guys build a 30-50K car and buy a $500.00 title and register it and only pay taxes on $500.00.......Also there are more 32-34 fords registered today than henry ever made. as far as using a aftermarket brookville body, Don't do that.....just use their panels to restore the original one you have.....example I have a original 1932 roadster body. I need all replacment panels except for my dash is useable.....So I am not using a aftermarket body, I am just replacing all the panels my body needs....Get what I am saying??....My 32 frame is a original but most of it needs to be replaced, I think I will only be able to salvage about a 4 inch piece of my original frame....So for me this is no concern, As I am not building a aftermarket car I am fixing a original.....You just have to play their technical bullshit game the same way they play it.....

 

No vehicle 1975 and older is subject to the California smog program. Period.

 

Let's face the facts, the current climate is one of anti internal combustion power. The gov. has been pushing the anti carbon propaganda for at least the last 20 years to every school kid that will listen. The current powers that be will push anything they can to put their agenda into force. I don't want to be an alarmist but by the time legislation gets to the floor it's too late! Legislation is passed by money, not the will of the people. Lobbyists will see to that. Our elected officials don't give a shit about us. They care about who's lining their pockets. I hate to be cynical but it's getting painfully evident, and I'm sure in their minds, they are doing the right thing for us in spite of what we might desire, kind of like us being a stupid kid who doesn't know whats good for himself.

Anybody who thinks they are going to keep their cars and be able to drive them more than a few more years isn't watching the news. Read the carbon credit legislation that has been on the hill for the last few months and see who the alarmist is.

 

Alot of states are joining CA in this "stop the evil hotrodders club" Boyd is the one who opened their eyes to just how much money they were losing. bottom line is they want their tax money and they are going to get it one way or another......

 

Idaho has been titling them as special construction for years and hasn't been a problem. They treat any manufacture the same. At least the buyer will be knowing what they are buying and not being pond off as originals.

 

I do agree with you that the GOV is controled by money, But it is that very reason that we will indeed be driving our cars in a few years, because Big Oil has more money than our US gov ever will, They will never allow the whole green car to take over. Kinda like that guy who designed that batt for GM....that was many of years ago and "Big oil" still has managed to keep it out of production

 

Ok. Maybe I dont get it, but I know people who will find say, a 69 Z-28 yenko bla bla bla camaro rotting in the woods under an old chrysler, the only thing worth having is the firewall which has the vin plate saying that it is this ultra rare camaro. Then order up every new part under the sun for a 69 camaro and now have a "genuine" yenko camaro. Should'nt that be a 2011 camaro? But it's not, so why cant the same be done with a brookville body or any other body?

 

I'll believe it when I see it. Every few months someone here posts up some "scary" thread about registering hot rods and the like. Nothing ever happens, and it's always been "hear say" about so and so had this happen to them. Not worried. Besides how can you force someone to smog something that never had smog equipment in the first place? Just saying...

 

Unlawful or not, I never could understand why anyone would register a reproduction car as an original car in the first place.

 

We have enough laws here in Florida,it seems like its always Calif. trying to push their laws on the rest of the country.Might be a good idea to believe what you see not something that you heard.Every story gets a word added to it by each ear that passes it on.Most states already have the inspection process to get a kit car registered and you pay taxes on all the materials used building the cars with proof and reciepts so this is nothing new.As far as Calif. only issueing 500 kitcar permits a year is that a fact or just more hearsay bullshit?

 

The purpose of the thread is not to cause drama or partisan arguements, it was to inform H.A.M.B. members of whats going on , and brain storm positive solutions to a problem that is not going to go away, if you wait till a bill is passed, it cost thousands of dollars in legal fees and time to fight it, right now they are at least willing to listen to us, and we still have time to contact our representatives. True most of us use only original parts to build our cars but we have one weakness , most of us use a later vintage motor with speed equipment on our hot rods and not the original engine or equipment that came with the car. They were not very clear on what they were going to do with orig cars with engine swapps. I feel bad for the street rodders and admire their courage to show up and defend our hobby, My friend told me that the guys there where mostly in their seventies and putting up a fierce fight, they wanted to know that why was the goverment telling them what engine they had to install in their cars, the guy from G.M. showed up thinking that he was going to pick up a bunch of engine orders, man those old guys tore him a new one for hidding the real cost of their e-motors. I am shure there are a lot of H.A.M.B. members that own a repo body and want to run a vintage engine, and I feel they have the right to run the engine of their choice, as long as it is in good running condition , and not some rainbow motor G.M. is trying to shove down our throats.
if they do nail us for the engine swapps, I hope the smog requirements will be for the year the engine was manufactured and not 2011 specs.

 

You sound like the kind of guy that wears a aluminum foil hat.

 

Im not scared Im not selling mine.................Ever.....................

 

By the time all these lawmakers get this figured out we will as a nation run out of petro. You would think they have better things to spend there time on.

 

I call bullshit

 

Hey guys, if you want to talk about the political aspect of this try our social group. Ryan approved and will keep this thread clean.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=453

Thanks, Trent

 

For what it's worth, Ma law,

Session Laws

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2010

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CHAPTER 311 AN ACT RELATIVE TO THE REGISTRATION AND INSPECTION OF STREET RODS AND CUSTOM VEHICLES. (see House, No. 4871) Approved by the Governor, August 19, 2010

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<!--end Hierarchy-->Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court assembled, and by the authority of the same as follows:
SECTION 1. Chapter 90 of the General Laws is hereby amended by inserting after section 2G the following 2 sections:-
Section 2H. (a) For purposes of this section, section 2I and section 33, the following words shall, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, have the following meanings:-
“Custom vehicle”, a motor vehicle for which the year of manufacture is after 1948, for which the model year is at least 25 years old and that has been altered from the manufacturer’s original design or has a body constructed, in whole or in part, from non-original materials.
“Model year”, the model year indicated on a motor vehicle’s certificate of origin or, if there is no such certificate, the model year the body of such vehicle most closely resembles.
“Replica vehicle”, a motor vehicle constructed or assembled by a non-manufacturer from new or used parts that, when assembled, replicates an earlier year, make and model vehicle.
“Specially-constructed vehicle”, a motor vehicle reconstructed or assembled by a non-manufacturer from new or used parts, the exterior of which does not replicate or resemble any other manufactured vehicle.
“Street rod”, a motor vehicle for which the year of manufacture is prior to 1949, and which has been altered from the manufacturer’s original design or has a body constructed from non-original materials.
(b) The registrar shall issue certificates of registration and number plates for street rods, replica vehicles, specially-constructed vehicles and custom vehicles in accordance with this section. The registrar may assign an appropriate registration plate to a custom vehicle, replica vehicle, specially-constructed vehicle or street rod based upon the vehicle’s intended use and the registration requirements under 540 CMR 2.05.
(c) Street rods, replica vehicles, specially-constructed vehicles and custom vehicles shall not be considered antique motor cars and shall not be eligible for registration pursuant to section 6A.
(d) Replica vehicles shall be titled as the year in which the vehicle was built and the make, model and year of the vehicle that is intended to be replicated. A label of "Replica" shall be applied to the title and registration card. Custom vehicles and street rods shall be titled as the year in which the vehicle was built and an appropriate description of the vehicle including make, model and model year; provided, however, that the manufacturer's name shall continue to be used as the make with a label of “street rod” or “custom vehicle” applied to the title and registration card. Specially-constructed vehicles shall be titled and registered showing the make as “specially constructed” and the year the vehicle was built shall be the vehicle model year.
Section 2I. (a) The registrar, prior to the initial registration of a custom vehicle, replica vehicle, specially-constructed vehicle or street rod, may require such vehicle to undergo a salvage-type inspection at a facility to be determined by the registrar to ensure that stolen parts have not been included in the vehicle.
(b) The registrar, prior to the initial registration of a custom vehicle, replica vehicle, specially-constructed vehicle or street rod, may require such vehicle to obtain a state-assigned vehicle identification number, unless the registrar is satisfied that there is a clearly visible state-assigned vehicle identification number that was previously assigned by the commonwealth or another state.
(c) The registrar may refuse to register or may revoke the registration of a custom vehicle, replica vehicle, specially constructed vehicle or street rod, originally built by its manufacturer as a model year 1966 or later vehicle, unless such vehicle is equipped with operable safety belts for all passenger positions.
(d) The registrar may refuse to register or may revoke the registration of a custom vehicle, replica vehicle, specially constructed vehicle or street rod if the registrar determines that the original manufacturer had installed an air bag or air bags in the vehicle and the current version of the vehicle does not contain such air bag or air bags.
SECTION 2. Section 33 of said chapter 90, as appearing in the 2008 Official Edition, is hereby amended by adding the following paragraph:-
(37) For the registration of every street rod, replica vehicle, specially constructed vehicle or custom vehicle, as defined in section 2H consistent with the vehicle’s intended use and the requirements of 540 CMR 2.05.
SECTION 3. Subsection (b) of section 142M of chapter 111 of the General Laws, as so appearing, is hereby amended by inserting after the third paragraph the following paragraph:-
Street rods and custom vehicles, as defined and registered pursuant to section 2H of chapter 90, shall receive an emissions waiver certificate. Specially constructed vehicles and replica vehicles, as defined and registered pursuant to said section 2H of said chapter 90, and registered on or before April 30, 2012, shall receive an emissions waiver certificate. Specially constructed vehicles and replica vehicles, as so defined, registered after April 30, 2012 shall be subject to emission control requirements based on the model year and configuration of the engine installed in the specially constructed or replica vehicle, whether the engine is an original equipment manufacturer’s production engine, rebuilt engine or crate engine. Regulations relative to emissions compliance for replica or specially constructed vehicles registered after April 30, 2012 may establish maximum limits on the annual number of vehicle miles traveled by these vehicles; provided, however, that any such limit set, shall not be set at less than 3,000 miles per year. If the model year of the engine installed in the specially constructed or replica vehicle requires an onboard diagnostic system, the vehicle shall be subject to an onboard diagnostic system emissions test applicable to the certified configuration, including any exclusions or exemptions otherwise granted to that certified configuration.
SECTION 4. This act shall take effect on April 30, 2011.

Approved, August 19, 2010.​

 

Does anyone know what the hell this really says, I don't speak "Gooberment"....LOL

 

Bradchevy, that 500/year is fact. And they are gone on the first or second day.
I hope they catch anyone/everyone that registers/tries to register a "new" car as an original.
Jim

 

I get the feeling that some folks figure this is "new" news? I lived in Minnesota in the 70s and built a fiberglass '27 T roadster on an aftermarket frame. Had to register it as "homebuilt" and supply a reciept for every part, used or new. At that time emissions wasn't the point, collecting sales tax on every part/bolt/nut was, in lieu of you buying a new car from a dealer and paying sales tax. Hell that was 40 years ago.
Live in NH now, still a pretty "live free or die" type of place. I once registered a '32 phaeton here, Wescott body, with the four digit Wescott glass body number. Local town clerk took it no problem. No title required, you can draw up bill of sale on lined school paper but now these days they do have you get a cop to inspect and sign that the serial number (however bogus) that you put on the paperwork matches the actual one on the car.

 

I agree with Cowtown as to the power of big oil. The thing that scares me is a lot of these bills get passed through as a rider to some other popular bill. A year or so again Pa. tried to pass legislation that would prohibit the alteration of any exhast system from the manufacturers spec. It was attached as a rider on a child safety act and only with the help of SEMA did we get it removed prior to a house vote. At this time PA has really good rod legislation. Not too much and not too little. I have noticed on the last few titles that they are picking the cars apart a lot more than usual. Hopefully this not an effort to control through attrition rod titles. We need to be vigilant because we easily can wake up one morning and and find we can no longer enjoy the vehicles we love because they can no longer be tagged, insured or inspected. Polititions count on us not doing anything and unfortunatly, I think that's exactly what will happen.

Sad but true.

 

the title of this post NEEDS to be changed. something was lost in the translation that lead manual to target Brookeville. It will affect all of us,including tupperware car owners. remember that this ball gained momentum when Boyd got caught evading california state sales taxes by titling in Georgia and all of us will pay from now on. I wouldn't be as bitter if he ate a bullet rather than just dying to avoid prosecution.

 

First , thanks you for posting that, was that for the state of Ma. or Calif? but to answer the prior post in plain english, The document clasifies the brookville car as a replica, the problem is that Calif only isues 500 permits a year, and they are gone , so if you register it after april 2012 , you are subject to the smog requirements of the year of manufacture of the engine, so if you install a new crate motor, the smog guy is going to break out the computer for you, as for the safety or dot requirements, if the vehicle resembles something prior to 1966, seems like all you need is a brake and light certificate. Our vehicles seem to fall in a grey area between a street rod and a vintage vehicle, notice the word waived was used in referense to the smog check , this means you are excused from meeting the smog requirements but does'ent mean you have the right not to be smogged.

 

Tell us more about this

 

Stay away from new chassis'.
Start with an original chassis and title, then "fit" a new steel body.