Hi guys..I'm back with a couple of other questions. The '49 that I just bought already has a Camaro front clip, but the horizontal portion of the doner frame is welded on the BOTTOM of the '49, making it WAY high. It appears that I'll be cutting it loose and rewelding maybe as much as 6" higher than it presently is. Does anybody have any info as to "key" dimensions to mount it to give a ride that will be about the same height as my avatar ? (my high school build '49 that's long gone). Anyway, I have another question, as I've seen a number of comments saying that Camaro front end is not the way to go 'cause of the front wheel distance (too wide?). I just measured the face to face on the front end (unloaded ), and it appears to be 61" on the Camaro front end. The question is, why wouldn't/doesn't the installation of "offset wheels" bring the wheel centerline back where it needs to be? Seems as if the question of "too wide" would evaporate. Am I missing something here? Also, it looks like my face to face dimension on the stock rear is 57". The "new" Jag XKS is advertised as 61.75, but I just measured it at 60.75, but that is fully unloaded. Would not the same concept apply? Thanks in advance, guys...
The wheel flange to wheel flange for a very low shoebox usually ends up about 53-54 inches if you want to turn without rubbing. Your current w/f to w/f is 7-8 inches too wide. You won't find a rim that has that much backspace to make up the difference. Same with the rear. Do it once, and do it right. I'd find another frame. But a camaro clip and a jag rear in a shoebox makes me a little sick to my stomach.
Thanks, Badshifter. The thing is this. I fully understand the fact that things look "wide" now. Your comment about "won't find a rim" is noted. But I've found a custom wheel company that will fabricate just about anything anybody would need in the way of offsets. So does that negate what you said? Also, I'm just not sure what you mean by "makes me a little sick to my stomach". I was just hoping that somebody would give me some facts, is all, and not opinions. No offense. By the way, you have a lovely little convertible.
OK, I'll explain this way. Lets say you have a 6 inch wide rim up front. Lets say it has a 3 inch backspace. You need to lose 7-8 inches in total width, so lets say 3.5 inches per side. So you need a rim with 7 inches of backspace, and no outside offset. There is no such wheel custom or otherwise that would be 6 inches wide with 7 inches of backspace. Same deal on 7 8 9 inch wide wheel. It will not/can not happen CORRECTLY. Thanks for the avatar comment, it's not mine. I have shoeboxes and can't grasp the Camaro/Jag combo, but it's yours to do with as you please, and it's good to ask questions first. I've done stock with Jamco stuff, G body clips, Fat Man clips, Morrison clips, and stock. What you do with the info is up to you. Good luck!
What do you think about the G body clips... they're the same as a S10 right? How well do they work out?
To do it right I still had to narrow the control arms. I made my own tubular uppers, and narrowed the stock lowers. It works very well, but a PITA.
I just realized, a rear dually wheel is what your fronts would need to look like. And if it makes you feel better, I'm sure any second now somebody will be sick that I clipped a shoebox with a GM clip, engine trans etc.
S10 is nice and narrow, about 4 inches narrower than the shoebox. Add a set of reversed chevy rims, and your sitting right at stock width. Just my 2 cents. Rich
My shoebox has a Camaro/Nova clip. In order to solve the width problem, it was narrowed 3"; of course this means the crossmember, tie rod, and sway bar all need to be narrowed. After one installation that had the "too high" problem you encountered, it was clipped a second time (by a more skillful fabricator), and this time in addition to the 3" narrowing it was also stepped 4" at the firewall. This got it WAAY down, but it still has an excellent ride with full stock suspension travel. Several side effects from this exercise: 1. With the stock front wheel wells, the 3" narrowed front clip, and '55 Chevy front wheel centers with a little negative offset on 6" rims, it still had a turning circle of about 200 feet. The solution was to raise the front wheel openings 2", which I think improved the looks of the car. 2. The engine was raised with the stepped front clip, meaning that it was 4" higher in the body. This necessitated rebuilding the trans hump and driveshaft tunnels, and making a recess in the firewall to be able to remove the distributor (Chevy). 3. The upper inner A-arm ends are so close to the heads that the only cast manifolds I can run are Chevy pickup rams' horns (unless I wanted to build custom headers, which I didn't). 4. In the end, the front was just too low (dragged on the pavement frequently), so it was raised about 1" with spacers under the coils. All the pictures below are after it was raised. The lesson for anyone else doing this installation would be to limit the stepped frame to 3" or so. So, it was a lot more complex and expensive than I first anticipated. It looks good and drives extremely well, so I'm happy with the outcome, but I wouldn't do it this way again.
Hey, '50Fraud...I have to tell you, that you've made me drool with the pictures of your '50. DANG ! ! BEEEEAAAAUUTIFUL ! ! And in addition, I REALLY appreciate your solutions to the situation. I never seem to react favorably when somebody just starts saying "it won't work.. etc..". I had already thought seriously about "clip narrowing", acknowledging that there will be a very slight affect on the "coincident centers" of the two front wheels if the front crossmember is a bit narrower. Then the combination of the reversed rims makes sense, too... Your car is sooo awesome !! !do you have other spec's posted about it somewhere? or a webpage? By the way, I ran across this the other day from HotRod Mag., Feb, 2009 issue. http://www.hotrod.com/howto/42838_modern_subframe_installation/index.html You have pretty well answered my original question.. Since I'm a retired mechanical engineer, I knew there is no such thing as "you can't do it".... It seems you have done it. Thanks again everybody. Ya'll can be assured that this isn't the last question I'll have.
I'm planning on a s-10 frame swap for my 49 sedan. Mine has bad floors/rockers/quaters, so I'll cut out all the inner structure and channell the body down over the frame where I want it then build in a new floor with crossmembers that mate up to the s-10 frame. Probly use a 305/700r. G-body frame may also work, but they are pretty wide.
Thanks, Ray, but, by the way, I'm not ignorant, nor limited on funds, and I have already gotten educated. I appreciate your views, but others have offered sooo much more factual information that's useful, and not just opinions.
PM Pist-N-Broke here on the HAMB. He has a nice '51 Vicky with either a Camaro or Nova rear steer clip, that fits nicely. I dont remember him saying anything about narrowing it, but I might be mistaken. I didnt notice which clip your car has, but the rear steer clip is a bit narrower than the front steer clip.
Thanks. It's been in almost every shoebox thread here on the HAMB at some point, with most subjects covered in some detail, but there isn't any single place that has it all. It was featured in R&C in Feb '03; that's probably the best source. I'll be happy to tell you anything more that may be useful to your own project. The mere fact that there is already a clip in your car is perhaps the best reason to keep going in that direction (as opposed to undoing everything and starting over). Mine is a front-steer, by the way.
Revisited: Questions/solutions/opinions/upset stomachs/nausia/etc. Say what you will about the fact that I've "hacked" a classic car, SHE is a baad-ass, air conditioned, smooth riding, (power steering/power disk breaks) - great handling little vehicle........As for my opinion, I have always thought that simply "restoring back to original" is kinda.....well.......lazy......... Ok, here's what's happened, ya'll, whether you agree or not, she is pretty much done, and all has worked out PERFECTLY, with a stock S-10 front clip, 383 Stroker, '85 Jag XJS rear end, and a trillion other solved issues.......... Work to be done: Finish interior, paint, windows and trim.. otherwise, she could be on the road right now.... http://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/ The frame/Jag rear end install http://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/Building-the-Frame/i-FBZLttX Engine Install http://49fordcoupe.smugmug.com/Prepping-for-Engine/i-3xwk8QV OR go back to the "main link", and pick out which Sub-galleries are interesting.... Thanks for all those who have answered questions and helped out in solving "some" problems..
The Jalopy Journal
