History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

And just for the fun of it, here's an Overland with its lacquer looking practically spanking new! LGS in New Zealand ID's
this as maybe a 1916 Model 83, 35-hp on about a 106-inch wheelbase. I'd say that's close, as it looks to be five-passenger.

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I am an AACA member and own 3 Stephens cars; a 1917 Touring car, a 1919 Sport Roadster and a 1922 Roadster. There are about 25 survivors of the 25 to 30 thousand that were produced between 1916 and 1924. I have a book available about the Stephens car. If interested contact me. RSTEP

 

Stephens used 3 different radiator badges. !916-1917 used a rectangular badge with the letters Stephens across the center. 1918-1922 used a round badge. 1923-24 used another rectangular badge with a large Greek sigma and Stephens across the top. RSTEP

 

HUGE THANKS, RSTEP! 25 survivors out of 25-30,000 built makes the Stephens a RARE car, indeed.

Please feel free to post any visual elements you think would be of interest to folks into the really rare makes! Thanks again for stepping in here.

 

Wow, all that PLUS a 4-speed Muncie, 401 Nailhead
bored .30 over AND dual fours? Ed and the new
owner surely created an instant ULTRA-RARE Riviera,
'cause there surely isn't another one quite like it!
Shoot, if it was 325-horse stock, then I wonder what it
dynos out at now? Whatever, even for a two-ton
machine, I'll bet she can s--- and git!!!

 

Went over to the Hershell-Spillman carousel museum to check out their display on the H-P engine.
Found a picture of one of the 4 made Hershell-Spillman automobiles as well. Not a good picture of it, but a picture just the same. Certainly extinct..........
Also there was an unrestored H-P motor on loan from the Buffalo transportation museum, supposedly a spare out of a Fulton truck.

Also some pictures on the wall for the H-P V-8 motor.
Really neat stuff!

 

By the way?
Did we ever mention Fulton Trucks as being one of the Hershell Spillman powered vehicles?

 

Here's some more pics

 

From the Lockport Union Sun.

On display at the Herschell Carrousel Factory Museum for the 2010 season is “Herschell Spillman Motor Company — The Pick of the Field,” a history of the engine manufacturing outfit that occupied the factory that became Remington Rand’s Sweeney Street facility.

Doug Bathke, a museum volunteer and board member, began researching the motor company some time ago. He figures that other museum patrons — and motorheads of all kinds — might be pleased to uncover a hidden part of North Tonawanda’s past.

“I found it in the archives, and I was surprised to find it,” he said. “I’ve been there since the beginning (of the museum’s existence in 1983) and never heard of a separate motor company.”

More than 60 automakers worldwide had, however, in the 1900s and 1910s. Founded around 1904 as the Herschell-Spillman Company, the Herschell Spillman Motor Company (renamed in 1919) pioneered development of the V-8 engine, according to Bathke’s research. The company made car engines of all types, as well as engines and parts for fire trucks (most notably Ahrens-Fox models), boats and fighter planes used during World War I (Liberty Engines, among the first mass-produced airplane engines).

“It was a real surprise to me that they were that heavy in the industry that early in the motor history of America,” Bathke said.

That work extended beyond U.S. borders. Carmakers in Ontario and Quebec were found to have been used NT-made engines, while Bathke’s research uncovered a Herschell-Spillman engine that was spotted in Australia (the owner saw the “HS” logo and couldn’t trace its origin).

Much of the engine work was done in the company’s Sweeney Street facilities. Multiple factories and work houses on both sides of a city block of the street bustled with activity, as the company had the capacity to make between 60,000 and 100,000 engines per year. Additional work was done in the company’s Oliver Street facilities (the land that’s now occupied in part by the Carousel Park Apartments). Advertisements from the era show that the company was a major employer, looking to hire up to 200 mechanics at one time.

The exhibit contains numerous documents, pictures, advertisements and bonds, but the centerpiece is a Herschell-Spillman engine that was found in the collection of the Buffalo Transportation Pierce Arrow Museum. While not in pristine condition (the engine has long been held in the Pierce Arrow museum’s storage facilities), Bathke considers it a vital piece of local history.

“It looks pretty rough. It’s not a shiny engine by any means,” Bathke said. “But it’s great just that we found one.”

Such pieces of Herschell-Spillman memorabilia are hard to unearth. A handful of stock certificates and other items can be hand on Internet sales and auction sites (usually for a few hundred dollars), and old magazine ads can be had for less than one-quarter of that price. Ahrens-Fox aficionado Ed Hass of California, meanwhile, said on Hemmings Motor News that only four fire trucks powered by Herschell-Spillman engines still exist: two in Ohio, one in New Hampshire and one in California.

The recession of the early 1920s put a damper on business, and by 1924 the Herschell-Spillman Motor Company went bankrupt. Remington Rand bought the Sweeney Street property a year later, with Allan Herschell and Ed Spillman eventually going their own ways and competing in the carrousel business.

Bathke hopes that by putting the exhibit on display, the museum can attract a new element of visitor while also educating the community on a little-known portion of its past.

 

How about a H-P motor in a tractor?

Making history: The first V-8 tractor

Perhaps in 1916, certainly by 1917, Adams produced his second model, a 20-40 with a 3-1/4-by-5-inch bore and stroke with two speeds forward and one reverse, capable of road speeds of up to 3.5 mph. The engine (a Herschell-Spillman 8-cylinder) could be revved up to produce 70 hp at the belt in emergencies. Painted red with a yellow hood, the tractor sold for $2,200 in 1919.
This Common Sense was the first tractor built with a V-8 engine. “The new tractor is no different from the others Common Sense Gas Tractor Co. has been putting out except for the larger motor,” reported an August 1916 article in Gas Engine. The tractor’s steady pull “means that it can go to places where they never would’ve attempted with the older machines and does the work with greater ease,” as well as more speed on the road.
“The 8-cylinder motor gives an absolutely steady pull to meet the steady load,” Common Sense promotional materials claimed. The company maintained the tractor could plow 20 to 25 acres a day using a half a gallon of gas and 3 quarts of oil per day. “Figure the low cost per acre for yourself,” the materials boasted. A later ad toned that down to 15 to 20 acres per day for the 6,000-pound machine. The company even offered a booklet explaining, “in plain English,” why the 8-cylinder engine was the best. The company acknowledged that the initial investment was steep but insisted farmers would see a return on their investment “through years of faithful service.”
Information on the 20-40 model is inconsistent: In one instance the tractor is identified as a 20-35; on another, it is identified as a 20-50. That confusion apparently existed before the engines had been tested, or else resulted from human error, as the latest information on Common Sense tractors mentions only the 15-25 and 20-40. One reference says the 20-40 had the same specifications as the 15-25, except for the larger engine and more power, while another said its size was bigger, 180 inches long, 72 inches wide and 66 inches high, which is probably accurate because of the larger engine



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This past Saturday, we visited a car collection in St. Paul and one of the fellows I was visiting with was telling me about a HENDAL car in another fellows collection that I have yet to visit. Possibly the only one in existence.

I could not find any information on a HENDAL car on the web. Maybe one of you guys will have better luck then I did.

Jim

 

Page 155 has a good Herschell-Spillman exchange. HJ's Post # 3085 talks about the H-S/Peerless association. That is, HS providing Peerless' first V-8, for 1916, which became the basis of the V-8 Peerless used until 1925. Peerless, it's said, re-engineered the engines somewhat, internally, to eliminate a slight rocking motion, which they'd disliked. The post says they accomplished this by improving the firing order and adding some counterbalancing, apparently to the crank shaft. Later, Peerless is said to have employed the first progressive four-barrel carb (made by Ball) in the U.S. auto industry. Note, After 1918, the HS engines were officially marketed only as Spillman engines.

 

Jim, was he sure of the name, or is it possible he had it wrong or was mis-remembering it? There was a 1901 Hidley, made only one year, Hidley Automobile Co., Troy, NY. It was a steamer. If that is it, it may WELL be ONE OF A KIND! I have NEVER heard of a Hindle OR a Hidley -- until now!

 

You ran a similar post a couple years back, I found it by doing a yahoo search for 1909 Luverne, post #3501.
The Gentlemen that restored this car was my childhood nieghbor Gordon Sundgard. I even got a ride in this car at least once that I can remember around Lake Phalen. Gordy as he was known, was an antique car nut long before it was a big money hobby that it is now. He had in his flock along with the luverne a 1909 Buick, A 19XX Haynes, a '48 Lincoln, 1898 Panhard, a late 40's or early 50's Indian mortotcycle. Gordon was the local historian he grew up in Gladstone, MN his fathers house was next to his on Clarence st
The last I heard his son Jan still owns the house on 1865 Clarence st

 

The number of auto and truck marque the used Herschell-Spillman four- and six-cylinder engines is pretty astounding -- probably only exceeded by Continental and the efforts of Durant, GM, Chrysler and Ford. (I have seen one list that exceeds 100 on the Continental engines, so any company would find it tough to compete with THAT!)

Anyway, I've been sort of fascinated by the H-S V-8s, so I've been on the lookout everywhere I surf. Here's a list of the companies I've learned of, so far. Any reliable additions WELCOME!


Auto Makes Using Herschell-Spillman V-8


Abbott (not Abbott-Detroit)
Apperson (adapted, 1918-25,
especially Anniversary Series)
Daniels
Douglas
Drummond
Majestic (1917)
Murray
Peerless (H-S, first year, 1916)
Rock Falls (unconfirmed)
Ross
Standard

 

QUOTE=TXMark;6456949]You ran a similar post a couple years back, I found it by doing a yahoo search for 1909 Luverne, post #3501.
The Gentlemen that restored this car was my childhood nieghbor Gordon Sundgard. I even got a ride in this car at least once that I can remember around Lake Phalen. Gordy as he was known, was an antique car nut long before it was a big money hobby that it is now. He had in his flock along with the luverne a 1909 Buick, A 19XX Haynes, a '48 Lincoln, 1898 Panhard, a late 40's or early 50's Indian mortotcycle. Gordon was the local historian he grew up in Gladstone, MN his fathers house was next to his on Clarence st
The last I heard his son Jan still owns the house on 1865 Clarence st.



TXMark, THANKS for the post! Great to hear from someone who actually RODE in what is, quite apparently, one of the ONLY TWO known surviving Luverne automobiles! (Jim, one of our regulars, knows where the other is kept, in a barn or garage. )
Sounds to me as though there is a chance the 1909 is still at the address you mentioned above???

 

From what I have heard the younger son Kip is the owner of the Luverne. Kip would be about 55 now and probably still lives in the St. Paul, MN area. The older son Jan 58 was living and probably still is living at the house on Clarence st.

 

You are correct. Kip does have the Luverne and I will be posting a color picture of it soon. I don't think Kip knows how to operate it, so it just sits in the barn. Kip's son Sven is a local weather man. Just google Sven Sundgaard.

Jan still has the early Buick and the '32 Auburn that was Gordy's (his Dad) and his own '23 Duesenberg. I think he still has the Indian Motorcycle and the 1899 Panhard too. And possibly some others too that are not coming to mind.

Gordy has been gone since 1982. He was only 59 when he passed. It was big shock to all of us at the time. Gordy was a character in a good way.

I believe both Gordy and Kip received Olympic medals for either skiing or swimming.

Jan lives in the family homestead in Maplewood on Clarence Street as you said and I believe Kip has a farm in Cottage Grove.

If you search this thread, there are several posts on the LuVerne.

 

Jimi, this is the one I know about. However, it no longer lives on Clarence Street.

 

This is one of fewer than sixty 1954 Corvettes that were ordered in Pennant Blue. It is a striking color that while perhaps unpopular in period, contributes to an uncommonly impressive visual aesthetic today. All paint and bright work show beautifully through out. The appeal of the car is further enhanced by the inclusion of a rare aftermarket hardtop that is believed to have been with the car since it was new. Other rare items include performance options such as 6.70”x15’ wheels and correct spiral shocks. Wide whitewall tires against chrome hubcaps complete a perfect period look.

I don't think I have ever seen an early 'Vette with a hardtop before.

More Pics;

http://www.wwgauctions.com/auctions/details.cfm?vehicleID=19&id=33

 

That style of hardtop certainly suits the car.

I like the one fitted to this "restification" too:



http://www.coolcarsbystan.com/54Vette.htm

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On this site - http://www.docrebuild.com/dr-r-web/currentevents-82a.html

there's also a pennant blue with one of Model Builders of Chicago "Bubbletop" (a $500 option and only 25 were made by Model Builders).

 

http://vehicle.ezinemark.com/classic-cars-festival-in-california-7736a2508ead.html




http://www.ltd-cars.com/picture-31/maserati-spyder/4456257010.htm

 

There was a Stephens roadster restored in NZ in the 1970s. The owner had discovered that a total of 12 were imported to NZ. I found him a correct tail light lens when I was in the US in 1978. The car he built turned out to be an amalagam of 1922 and 1924 parts. He managed to get enough 1922 parts from the US to rebuild it as a correct 1922 car but died before he was able to do it. I believe the roadster is in Europe now - don't know what happened to the parts. I remember the Stephens had a similar size engine to the Buick six of the time - about 240 cubic inch - but
had an unusual set up for the rocker gear. I think it pivoted from the valve cover which was cast iron. I think also that the block had a hole in the middle for the plug wires to go through.

 

Hi, Jim. I was wondering if that was/is the same car.

So, we can account for one Luverne, OR is it TWO IN ALL? Heck, it was tmie for a check and update on Luverne anyway, eh?

THANKS, bro!

 

My first contribution to this site.
After going through all 242 pages of this thread I don't recall seeing anything about The Wagenhals Automobile & The Wagenhals Motor Co.
I would imagine these vehicles are either extinct or nearly extinct due to being produced nearly 100 years ago.

Taken from http://www.american-automobiles.com/Wagenhals.html

The Wagenhals Motor Co.
Detroit, Michigan
1910-1915 The Wagenhals was an American Automobile with three wheels produced by The Wagenhals Motor Co. W. G. Wagenhals was the owner of this Detroit, Michigan company in the early 1900s.
Wagenhals was a mechanical engineer and among his many innovations and inventions were the arc lamp for electric cars and rail system for New York City and a light inner city three wheeled delivery car shown below.



1914 Wagenhals Three Wheeler

The Wagenhals featured a fuel efficient two cylinder engine mounted crosswise between the two front wheels. The transmission was a planetary type with a single chain drive to the single rear wheel. This early American Automobile was designed specifically for those who needed a light inner city delivery car.

1914 Wagenhals Electric Advertisement ​

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Hiya, Bomb, and welcome to the HAMB and this thread. Wagenhals was surely an odd-ball lot of vehicles, designed specifically for inner city use, such as delivery vehicles, shuttling a doctor to house calls, that sort of thing.

Off the top of my head, I think I have only seen evidence of, MAYBE, ONE surviving specimen of these kooky-looking "cars." Though, the ad you showed (from an EXCELLENT site, BTW) says they offered electric and gas-powered cars, there doesn't seem to be a wealth of details about the Wagenhals.

Hell, MAYBE they are EXTINCT or darn close!!! LOL

 

Thanks for the welcome. I thought I'd come up with something that might have little info around. I've got an old set of Automotive Engineering books from the early teens. I'm going to look through it too see if it might have some cars that internet might have no information. They're in very delicate shape so I'm not sure if I'll be able to scan them to post some rarely seen photos or details.

 

The Wagenhals rather recalls the BMW F76/F79 of twenty years later:



That must be one of the obscurest historical BMWs. Masses of people don't have pictures of them as their wallpaper ...

 

Perhaps the Forerunner to this BMW?

1955 BMW Isetta Jagdwagen (hunting car)The Original Jagdwagen was made for the CEO of BMW, Kurt Donath, who liked hunting and used this car to go shooting.

This is a replica of a BMW Isetta converted to a "Hunting Car" for the Director of BMW in 1955​

The chassis and running gear are all standard Isetta-issue, but the body is made up to accommodate 2 hunters, their gear and their catch.​

Later, a Pennsylvania Company: CHADWICK imported Isetta chassis' to convert them into Golf Cars with a remarkably similar look to this "Jagdwagen"​

Manufacturer: Bayerische Motoren Werke, Munich, Germany​

<TABLE border=1 width=620 height=320><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>Model: Jagdwagen</TD><TD align=left>Motor: BMW 4-stroke</TD><TD align=left>Body : Steel</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Years Built: 1955</TD><TD align=left>No. Cylinders: 1</TD><TD align=left>Chassis: Steel Tube</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>No. Produced: ~1</TD><TD align=left>Displacement: 295 cc</TD><TD align=left>Suspension Front: Swing Arm</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>No. Surviving: none</TD><TD align=left>Horsepower: 13</TD><TD align=left>Susp Rear: Leaf </TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Length: 2 850 mm</TD><TD align=left>Gearbox: 4 + rev</TD><TD align=left>Steering: Worm</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Width: 1 380 mm</TD><TD align=left>Starter: Dynastart</TD><TD align=left>Brakes: Hydraulic</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Weight: 350 kg</TD><TD align=left>Electrics: 12 v</TD><TD align=left>4 Wheels: 4.80 x 10”</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Interior: Bench</TD><TD align=left>Ignition: Coil</TD><TD align=left>Top Speed: 85 km/h</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

It's two, the other one is a 1905 living in Luverne, Minn. where they were built. I'm trying to get some pics of it.

And I'm sure the car that fellow told me about last Saturday was a Hendal. Guess we'll just have to wait till I go visit the collection it's in.