So after running out of space in Farley for the first Torque Fest - we had to start calling around and try to find some new possible locations for the 2011 location (which is in Maquoketa IA BTW) One of the places I called was Blackhawk Farms Raceway outside Rockford IL. Initially they pretty much blew me off, but about 2 weeks ago I received a call from them asking if we were still interested in renting the place. I told them that we had already secured a new location but asked what other dates they had open? They said possibly late Aug or Sept and so I went to the track to check it out. It is an amazing location - plenty of room for camping and enough room on the grounds to park a lot of spectator cars and include a hot rod show inside the perimeter of the track. I was really excited about the place - then they took me ON the track. This was in a Suburban - not the most agile road vehicle out there today. In this behemoth we were able to do 45 mph turns and get up to about 65 on the straightaways. After running the track in this I was REALLY sold - thinking "How cool would this be to be able to take my car out on this track?!" (If I could ever keep the thing running) After doing the math on getting the track - I was seriously thinking about trying this as an event that we could have for the hot rod community to be able to come out and run their cars, trucks, etc. (Unfortunately the date I was hoping for is blacked out with a motorcycle event - it would be Sept 10 and while they have not paid a deposit, they do have first choice and they have until Feb 1, 2011 to commit to the track rental) There would be certain restrictions of course if we opened this up to be a "car show". We would be limited by the number of cars that could actually go out on the track - only 10 at a time. Figuring 10 cars every 15 to 20 minutes and the drive time of 8am to 5:30pm would mean we could only get about 275 cars on the track AT THE MOST. This assumes no major delays and therefore the reality will most likely be about 200 - 225 cars getting on the track that day. The good news is that if we were to do this it would only cost $20 for car show entry and $10 for track access. (Typically during the road track days that are open to everyone it costs about $200 for 4 hours of track access) The restrictions would be that this would be a "touring" event. What does this mean? NO WHEEL TO WHEEL ACTION this means no passing It means there would be a pace car - Pace car would go 50MPH in the curves and 70MPH in the straightaways. DOT approved motorcycle or better helmets would have to be worn Long sleeves and long pants Seat belts required - but no harnesses are necessary All roadsters would have to have a roll cage. (After talking to them - it would be possible to have a special grouping of roadsters that would not be able to hit the higher speeds - but still make the course for photo opportunities) There is a self inspection checklist on the site that would have be adhered to by all the participants. Here is the link: http://www.blackhawkfarms.com/content/car_day_tech_sheet.pdf The question is- could we get enough spectators and other car entry spectators (customs and stockers) to come out and support the event. It is NOT cheap to rent this place and this is why you typically see Porsche, Viper, modified Mustangs, BMW, Miatas, and Corvette clubs renting this place and NOT the hot rodding community. I suspect we would have to open this to ALL pre 1964 cars in order to assure that we would get the numbers involved to pay the facility - much like the Back to the 50s vibe in MN. We could do classes that would be street rod, traditional hot rod, boat class (imagine seeing a '60 Caddy out there on the curves trying to hit 20 MPH around the corners!), roadster (for a slower cruise around the course), and perhaps vintage racing class - if any would show up. I really think it is something that people would love to see and owners would really like getting out there and cruising around the track would be a blast. But then - that is me - I look forward to hearing what people here would have to say about it and perhaps we could organize something at some point in the future. The other option is to get a small group together during a Wednesday and rent the track for 20-30 car owners. This would be available to us for around $125 per person. Unlimited track access all day. 10 minutes on 20 minutes off. This WOULD be a passing situation - the racing facility would provide a school session on proper etiquette in the morning (a 45 minute session that is mandatory) This would be for serious car owners only and while spectators would be able to come and see the event - it would NOT be a "car show". No publicity - no advertising - just us taking our cars out there to run them for the day. So this is a real option that I am wondering if we could get some guys to commit to and go out there and really run our rides. This mid week option is REALLY cool because if it gets rained out - they would reschedule another Wed for us. If the initial drivers could not participate on the make up date - then they could get a refund! The hitch is that we would have to put a sizeable down payment to guarantee that WE get the track - with no one else coming in to elbow in on our track time. http://www.blackhawkfarms.com/content/homepage.cfm here is another informative article: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/events/0409phr_road_america_track/index.html If you choose not to read it - here is an excerpt: The price of $350 may seem expensive compared to a night at the dragstrip, but it's actually a bargain for two days on a road course, especially at a facility like Road America. I also believe there was an article in a recent Hot Rod issue talking about this same exact scenario. If anyone know the article - please post the Issue # Thanks Let the discussion begin and I look forward to hearing the positive and negative sides of this!
this guy is a professional - but it will give ya an idea of what the track is like - nice trees in the camping area and many spots to watch the vehicles hitting it hard
I am a member of the Garden State Vintage Stock Car Club and a committed Drag and Circle Track racer. This summer we were invited to display and run during the ARCA race weekend at New Jersey Motor Sports Park. It was my first time and it was spectacular!! I highly recommend that you consider it.
I thought it sounded great. Untill I read this... NO WHEEL TO WHEEL ACTION this means no passing It means there would be a pace car - Pace car would go 50MPH in the curves and 70MPH in the straightaways.
As a former Road Racer at Blackhawk, and a former Land O Lakes region SCCA board member I can assure you that if you want to go wheel to wheel it will be expensive. You all would be required to have roll cages, Nomex, current safety gear, then there is the track insurance. Between the track rental and insurance the cost per driver would be $300 or more. Running an Auto-X type event would cut the safety gear and insurance but each driver would pprobably get 3 or 4 two lap sessions. the touring session would get to be the Best bet. Minnesota Street Rod Assn does a similar event at BIR with their drag race. If you would like I could put you in touch with a MSRA board member.
This is strange, I've never been to a track event without some tech inspection of brakes, suspension, etc. I imagine the pace car laps are going to be moderately quick parade laps, but 50 mph through some of those turns can feel pretty fast. Road courses are an awful lot of fun - - good luck with the event!
yeah - I understand - that is why there are two options in the original post above.....not sure you read the entire post but - racing is not a poor mans sport
I did. Second option said something about passing but not about a pacecar or speed restrictions. Doesn't matter... I'm to far away, anyway. I do think its a really cool thing to do, specially if you can let the cars & drivers that are capable do some faster laps.
I am not at all sure about the inspection - the way the approached it is that it is the drivers responsibility to make sure their ride was track worthy - I know that they may do an inspection - but their inspection in NO WAY determines if your car is safe or not. I would think that may open them up to some insurance liability if they tell the driver the car is safe to go out - then something goes wrong - the driver could come back and say that the track gave it a safety inspection and therefore should have been able to make it on the track with no problems......... who knows. Bottom line - if you wanna go balls out - you gotta pay the big $$$. I will wait to see if there is any interest in this - I know it would be fun if people would be able to see it - but some are unable to get the vision in their head unless it is right there for them to see.
right up the road in Elkhart in WI they get a huge turn out - but this is an established event dedicated to JUST the vintage racers......I am suggesting rods that are street legal.
wow , it's been a VERY long time since i have been to Blackhawk Farms , maybe 1983? it would be a great place to put on an event but the slow 45-50 MPH parade laps never got me excited , i can do that anywhere. driving like that on a road course is like going to a titty bar , gets you excited but you can't do anything about it. i say put fewer/faster cars on the track with guys that can handle it and let them go
While I would love to do it, I don't see many cars at car shows around here that could hold up to a day on the track. I see some cars I wouldn't ride to the store in. All it takes is one that was built for looks over safety to screw up everyone day. I do DE's every chance, and know how hard it is on suspension and brakes on my Miata. A over powered, under built car with a hyped up driver, spells trouble.
yeah - I see the point of some knuckle heads getting out there and screwing up the whole thing by not thinking or by having faulty equipment. I guess it is just something that in my mind would be fun to attend..... I am wondering where 36-3window goes to run laps since he "can do that anywhere" I have asked people from Minnesota, Kansas, Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Indiana, Michigan........ no one seems to know a place where hot rods can take their cars out on a race course that is specifically designated for the hot rods. Anyone verify where in MN there are locations that allow the hot rods to run their rides?
what i meant was driving a parade lap around the course is basically like just cruising around your local streets.....nothing too exciting , just going slow and staying in line. i've done that at BIR ( Brainerd) , Blackhawk , Road Atlanta and Road America (Ellhart Lake) But when i got to mix it up with `64 Corvette B-production car at Brainerd.....that WAS exciting
This is a very cool idea, no wheel to wheel is a great idea, I think these guys are in for a surprise to run a road corse at 50 in the turns and 75 on the straights, if nothing else it will get them excited and introduce them to the track, if they want to take on wheel to wheel with a group of like minded guys after that they will have had the exposure to it. Very cool, anything is better than just sitting in a lawn chair yackin for hours during a show.
Blackhawk is a neat track.. I spent quite a few days there back in the 70's helping friends with their cars. There MUST be some way to let the cars out with reasonable separation to get timed laps, eh? Or perhaps split the track in half and let cars run 1/2 laps for time, swaping halfs later for other runs? Put cones out to slow the cars in the turns, make it a big autocross track? Or other ways? Gary
If you go to the Blackhawk Farms website, there's information on their high speed driver education (HPDE) rules. It's more restrictive than the low speed lapping they proposed to you, but it can be done. It does require a ground school beforehand, and there is limited passing allowed in a couple locations. http://www.blackhawkfarms.com/content/rules.pdf
Blackhawk is a VERY narrow track, I've been there 100 times. We use to rent that track for 4-5 days at a time and test drivers. 2 formula cars side by side in a corner is all that track can take. To put drivers on the track that think they know how to race is a bad idea at best. You should do it as time trials, one car at a time and a stopwatch at the flag stand.
I've been participating in HPDE's for 23 years and instructing for a couple different clubs and driving schools for the past 10 years at Watkins Glen. You can (usually) get away with your own personal timing equipment but for insurance purposes these types of events (and even many HPDE's/driving schools) are not 'officially' timed. As soon as something is timed its considered a competition and insurance for a competition event is a whole new game. These guys are WAY better off doing the 45-70mph parade laps in the kustoms, rods and jalopies while having a cool car show in the infield (think of it as a cleaner version of the Jalopy Showdown) That'll give the participants an idea if this type of driving is something they'd be interested in. After they get a taste for it and if they like it they could then show up at a HPDE/school with a track appropriate car to get in-class AND on-track instuction ...THAT is the right move. -Bigchief.
ThANKS Francisco - that is what I am thinking...... perhaps I am just getting tired of seeing the same ole stuff year after year (I have been doing shows off and on since 92 and full time for the past 10 years) So seeing something different would be a welcome change for me. I guess some people would not want to go out on the track unless they could go balls out. But I honestly dont think many people's cars would be able to even go 50 mph in the curves......... this is the whole point of a road course - not the straightaways - you can take your car to the run what you brung drag races for that! There are plenty of those around - Hunnert Heads Up, Meltdown Drags are both great events in the N. Illinois/S. WI area once again - guess I am just wanting to see the cars going around the track - something different and fun
not sure - but I am sure it is not cheap!!! The insurance has not even been discussed yet - I just wanted to see if there was even interest in getting something like this started. Seems to be only so-so. I really think that once people saw this in action - they would be into it. I like the comparison - a cleaner version of the Jalopy Shodown. That is a good comparison. So SaltFlatMatt - you think even doing touring would be a bad idea?
so some others are stating that a pre 72 admission would be advisable - ya'll think that muscle cars on the track are the way to go?
Well I think, now thats a damn fine idear.If you put half as much planning and preparation into it as you did Torquefest 1 it will be a great time.I can only speak for myself but count one idiot from St.Louis in. The dirt was fun and a little traction cant hurt.
Well the GG event at Indy goes around the track in the exact same manner as what you describe, granted it's Indy and sacred but if it's available I'm sure the guys will go around it. Personally, the timed events at the GG shows look like they could have a mishap, that fence is not stopping much and I've seen cars jump those concrete barricades at other events. No doubt they are great fun, I've run in events real similar at other places, but in this lawyer up world it seems like a risk. Let the track do what it's comfy with and take on as little liability as you can.
The Jalopy Journal
