Corvair front suspension

Of course it matters where and how he mounts it. re-machine what? I would fab a mount with the holes in the right places, cut the tie rods to necessary length, shorten the steering arms a bit..........

 

You're not getting it. I know it matters where a rack is mounted but in this case he could mount it anywhere he wants but if the inner pivots are not in proper relationship to the A Arm pivots it's going to bump steer. And that doesn't have anything to do with the length of the tie rod, it's simple geometry and if it's wrong - BUMPSTEER, plain and simple.

 

Good point. The long steer arms were built in because the Corvair had a short wheel base. Fix it. As it is with a lot of conversions.

 

I have a 'Vair front end under my Essex and I hate it. I plan to replace it next summer with something that actually works. My Essex uses a '30 Chevy frame identical to yours. If I was you I'd toss the Corvair front end and go MII. My plans are either MII or a dropped axle, Ford style, depending on what my funds allow.

 

Oh, I'm way ahead of you. Post #25. There's shorter racks than MII. Somebody mentioned Dodge Colt. I'm sure there are others.............

 

Then you should look at your post #29 where you said he could mount it right - you can't WITHOUT SHORTENING THE RACK ITSELF, which is what I was talking about and you kept arguing. Now I think you will understand


I said "the MII Rack will make it horrible to drive, as the inner pivots for the tie rods are in the wrong place and it will bump steer from lane to lane."

You replied "Not if he plans ahead and mounts it right.........Shit happens."

 

hotroddin; Some people can only follow and apply what others have done. A shorter rack makes it easier, just don't make it the only way. I believe you when you say you couldn't do it.
Tasked to do it, I could. The length of the rack vs the distance between A-arm pivots isn't the only consideration. Somebody told me I couldn't mount a frame mounted rack on a 'beam axle without getting bump steer. I did it, have absolutely no bump steer, told them, and then they called me a liar. That particular issue can be resolved by coming on down and drive it. There are several things one needs to do. Yes, I said get it all lined up right and it'll work. How? I haven't been tasked to do it and I'm not doing any design for anybody but myself.

I'm outta here.

 

In 1978, I used a 1965 Corvair w/ Mustang R&P. I mounted the R&P so the tierod ends would match as close as possible, the same scribed arc as the lower A-arms and parallel as frontend worked up and down. I took it to a frontend alignment shop to be checked. Very little change in toe-in or out. I hope the pictures will help. Good luck with your install.

 

Correction....I just checked my spec's and the R&P was out of a Pinto...

 

About bloody time, cause you clearly don't know what you're on about.

 

custom rack, change steering arms, disc conversion kit, doesn't sound like this is still the cheap way to go. Like I said, mine is still free.

Some people don't know what ackerman is. Some do. I've seen bubble gum welded rat rod frames at goodguys. doesn't make it right, just because it worked.

 

Not only are you going to hate how it works …your going to hate how it looks.
Its not going to be low buck by the time you get done.
Do yourself a favor and put an axle front end in it….IFS looks like crap in a car were you can see it.

 

Corvair setups look like ass, even on a fendered rod.

 

No matter what you do with the steering arms the distance between the a-arms is still the same,that's where the trouble is in this conversion to R&P. If you don't stick with a Corvair box you will have nothing but trouble. Like I said before,I talked to people who make their living doing front ends and selling R&P units and they all said you can't make a R&P unit work correctly on the Corvair unit.If you split the front end and widen it out you can make the R&P work.You'll need the know the distance between the pivot pionts of the a-arms on the front end the R&P unit is from and make the Vair one the same width.

 

A friend of mine bought a 30 Model A coupe that had Corvair front suspension with disk brakes on it (it looked like hell, no fenders) since he was on a budget I told him to sell the Covair stuff to a Corvair restorer (which he did). He then bought a plain jane tube axle/4 bar set-up, it's much better now!

 

As someone said earlier, this was a common practice in the 70's. my 34 sedan had a corvair frontend with a pacer power rack. worked fine, never had a steering issue or a turning radius problem.

 

Really...????? Hmmmmmmmmmm, here's one for all you naysayers:



Been running a Corvair under this car since 1977...!!! Used a Pinto rack (with lengthened arms and modified steering arm) and have NEVER had a bumpsteer issue...IF you get the Ackerman correct, you won't have a problem. The car does not turn on a dime, but knowing that, you can learn to drive it that way. Keep in mind this was pre-Mustang unit...

Currently the car has 140,000 miles on it...I've rebuilt the front end once in those miles and had to redo the brakes three times (due to the smaller drums they tend to wear out faster), I'm now about to rebuild (or buy new) another rack as this one is getting worn. I've never had a tire problem (wear) and the front end aligns very well.

A lot of HAMBers have seen this car at the HAMB drags...I'll drive it anywhere anyone with a Mustang front end can.

R-

 

Quite a few of us did those 40 plus years ago...does that mean it is old school...or we are just old

 

given your options in 2010, would you do it again, or go another route? Corvair drums and shoes can't be the most plentiful these days. I'm just saying.

 

I posted in this thread on Corvair suspensions;

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384418&highlight=joe+mayall

Back in the 70’s, Joe Mayall wrote an article for Rod Action magazine on installing a Corvair front end in his 34 Ford sedan. He also did an article on shortening a Capri rack and pinion for the Corvair steering. Two months later he did an article on installing a 4 bar front end to a dropped axle in his 34 Ford. He sent the Corvair unit to a buddy in Idaho and he had it installed in a 30 Chevy sedan. That unit almost killed him. The thing I noticed most was how bad the car would chatter and scuff tires in a turn but was even worse while backing up. He had to rebuild the system yearly. His wife lost the steering turning into a daycare from being hooked up with a Pinto flex shaft. The car handled so bad that he sold the car after it went in a barrow pit on a trip to Colorado. Luckily the guy that bought it was not a driver type and it sets in his garage to show to friends. Can you tell I’m not a big fan of Corvair units? After all they came from a light car with the motor in the rear. I had two other friends that installed them in the 70's due to their ease of instillation but soon changed them out due to problems and having to rebuild every other year. I’m just saying!

 

I'd love to find one of those just to play with on the bench.
To say its impossible to get right is wrong...but it is reasonable to wonder if its now worth the trouble.
still...

I know Roger and theres NO WAY he's "putting up" with a nasty suspension in his Stude. He builds drivers and if it was a problem to drive, it would have been replaced right away. Period.

There seems to be no middle ground in this debate. I'd love to get to the nitty gritty on this somehow!!!!

Instead of just arguing for or against...I wonder would it be possible for someone to do a real HAMB investigation on the setup? See whats needed.
Maybe rack mounting position comes into play to limit toe change in the normal range of movement or something.

Someone (with an open mind) who knows suspensions must have one lying around they could play with...IF their curiosity was working overtime of course!

Just a thought...

 

Maybe I missed it, but what is wrong with the suspension that is under there right now?

 

i have one for free if anyone wants to pick it up...interior of B.C.

 

It just became traditional

 

Mr Matt,
Some range of opinion here...that's not a bad thing. I first installed on an A frame for my Avatar's coupe in 1970. Period correct and all I could afford. An MGB lent it's R&P to steer it. I can recall actually lengthening the steering arms ~3/4" and using a bronze steering shaft bearing support on the subframe's driver-side rear. Chevelle spindles, Moog ball joints (w/lower welded in) and 4 piston caliper discs. The car drove 100K miles w/no tire wear issues, handled like a dream and used V8 Vega coils to carry the small block and 2X4X3/16" frame's weight. Measure twice, it's a fine budget build. BTW, it was a car you could back up at 40+ mph, so the handling was balanced comfortably.

 

it seems like some of the ideas behind tossing the Corvair stuff in the scrap pile has more to do with the preference toward straight axles.
Not to make enemies on my first week here but....
If I wasted a straight axle,I would not have torched one off the car.
I did get alot of good info here and I will be asking a few of you more info.
thanks to all that replied.

 

Good thing you're outta here, because you are just clouding the issue. You will never totally eliminate the bump steer on a stock width Covair front end with a Stock MII Rack. I don't care who you are or what you THINK you can do by being "Tasked with it". You are right in that the length of the rack isn't the only consideration but it is a very important one. You can't rewrite the physical properties of basic geometry regardless of what you might think.

But then you can't even spell my screen name right so I guess that sums it up.

 

I'm guessing we're old... but cool.

 

I remember these articles well. Seems to me they went on several months with every new idea being the "miracle cure" before he finally put a straight axle back under it.

 

Its a leaf spring straight axle with steering simular to that of my forklift, only with less response and more slop.