"BuckRodders" in the 21st Century: Is the frugal rod dead?

I've been wondering lately, is the frugal side of our hobby all but dead? Yeah, I see the "deals" that are had on here from time to time, the magic barn finds, and the "holy sh*t" scores. However, even in the past year it seems that prices are skyrocketing, while incomes are dwindling. Sure, I can have a 4 door 60s car that no one has been interested in during the past 40 years for a sweet deal, but who cares, honestly?

I've read others posing similar questions on here in the past, only to get the "Well, you shoulda known it was an expensive hobby to begin with" pap. I reject the acceptance of that premise. It's kind of like saying "It's broken, so just live with it." Well, why is it broken? Who broke it? Jackson Barium-enema? Dana Mecum? EvilBay?......HAMB?!?!? I don't really think it's this board at all, but introspection can be a good thing, because we can unwittingly push the same crud on here that's been absorbed from out there without even knowing it.

When I first joined, the Pay It Forward thread was going, and I thought that was *really* cool. I just started my first build and was able to pass along the running 216 out of my 50 Chevy to a local guy....and it felt really great. I scored some Huck brakes from another member around the same time. I remember thinking, this is what it's all about....being frugal, passing along the good fortune, striking up amicable deals with others "in the club". however, that thread seems to have died completely in the past year. I don't even see it pop up anymore. I do have to blame myself as much as anyone else, the economy has done a number on us all, and when you put forth your charity and see others not doing the same, it causes some pullback.

I realize that a lot of this could also be location specific, too. The rust belt and the Northeast is nowhere to look for a decent car for a good deal....they're like hen's teeth. However, I scour Craigs, Ebay, and the classifieds almost daily just looking at anything and everything. Is it just me, or is the well going dry? I see piles of 1920s (hell....19xx) oxidation that used to pass for a body going for 3k! I've heard it's people hitting hard times who are trying to make ends meet, but when I was a kid, that's when you priced things to SELL. It wasn't even that long ago...I still think of myself as a young-ish punk....I grew up in the 80s. Perhaps I'm the naive one, because if everyone prices their same pile for 3k, then you have no other choice.....strongarm tactics, I guess.

Before anyone shoots off with this, I'll nip it in the bud.....YES, I would gladly drive a good distance to save some worthy tin at a good price....but "worthy" has become a highly subjective term at best, and dubious at worst.

This all leads to the end result...the end of what I would call the "buck rodder", someone who builds something cool and safe with a middle class budget, while not starving the family or putting off major surgery to do so. I have hope every time I see a guy who didn't have a million friends donate one part each to help him build a rod....but rather a guy who kept his eyes open for the piecemeal deal, $50 for repairable doors here, $200 for a good frame there, and built something to be proud of not only in result, but in process and shrewdness as well.

Am I the only one here? Honest to God, I'm not trying to sound like a whiny b*tch....I know I can't be the only one thinking this. And if I'm not the only one, is there really any affect we can have?

 

I think there are a lot of factors at work here.

Economy is definitely one, but you're right, bad times should bring prices down - there seems to be a bit of that going on but there are also a lot of sellers wanting top dollar, probably to help make ends meet.

Location is definitely another - take it from me, being up here as far NW as I am, there are few who will venture this far unless you drop your pants for them.

Another factor is the perception of cost - one man's expensive is another man's cheap.

As far as buying goes, it also depends on what you are looking to buy - certain things will hold their value (or perceived value, that's a whole other pesky can or worms) like '32-'34 Ford stuff, '40 Ford stuff, etc.

Now, having said all that, I'm in a bit of a sticky financial situation myself, out of work, etc. and, even with what I think are great prices, virtually none of my stuff is selling. So, if you want a great deal (in my opinion) on a whole bunch of '32 Ford stuff, let me know - looks like it's time to unbuckle the belt and let 'em drop!

Steve

 

LOL...I don't think you could have included more pant dropping references in there if you tried!!!

Yeah, I should have included the disclaimers about the high dollar car parts...32-34 Fords, 40's Fords, 49-52 Mercs, etc. I mean, dear God....even the 49-52 Chevy stuff like mine has gone up a lot just lately. I have a broad range of cars I'm interested in for my next build. Because of my personal economics, I shifted my dream 57 Buick build to further down the road when I can afford a really nice specimen. In the mean time, I think I've shifted to a 20s roadster/coupe/sedan build......not picky about which. I've also got a more than a few acquaintances and friends who already have one, and me being a noob I was surprised when I made this same commentary to them and they agreed without reservation.

I'll agree on the perception of cost. I mean, I've been looking at A frames and see prices vary wildly, but don't think much when I see one guy asking 200 and another asking 500. However, I saw one guy wanting $1200 for pile-o-swiss cheese . I think that ventures across the invisible line into kuh-ray-zee.

 

Just gotta be thrifty and a smart shoppah

 

I don't know.

Seems to be pretty traditional here in the southeast. None of my buds has a pot to piss in. I am passing up lots of good deals 'cause I can't even afford the good deals right now (a rebuilt muncie m20 for $600 with a rebuildable caddy 331 thrown in for free). Pay it forward is alive and well. A friend hands a rusted but restorable '37 heater to me at a car show because he knows I have a '37 truck and he picked it up for me at a swap meet. Won't let me pay him a cent for it. I give a spare remanufactured stovebolt water pump to a club brother. There's no talk of dollars changing hands. A week later, another club brother gives me three sizable boxes of new cad plated nuts and bolts and hardware. He delivers to factories where they are throwing this stuff in the dumpster and he intercepts it.

Talkin' Heads used to sing "Same as it ever was"

 

I think a lot of it has to do with Ebay and the internet in general - think about it, not THAT many years ago if you were looking for parts you'd hit the 'local' swap meets or grab a local 'smart shoppah' paper. Prices were probably 'localized' too - if 5 guys at the local swap meet have the the same part for $100 the 6th guy probably prices his at or near that.

But now with the web, Ebay, hamb, etc. You can instantly see what buyers anywhere in the WORLD are willing to pay for a part. Now maybe you live in sunny Socal, etc where the hot rod parts are rust free and plentiful - but if I'm in the rust belt, or outside the U.S. maybe I'm used to paying $200 for a less than perfect example of that same part, it tends to drive prices up.

You've also got to consider the weak U.S. dollar and overseas buyers....

AND Hot Rods are the 'thing' right now, I'm sure due to the Hamb and several of the overhaulin'/american hot rod/monster garage type shows of late. We're kind of victimes of our own popularity.

Make any sense?

 

Grab everything and trade stuff... When somebody has had a Model A coupe body for 3 years, has run out of money or time.. and just wants something old to drive, a running, driving, 4 door '63 Chevy with a mexican blanket interior that you paid $1000 for looks pretty damn good.

 

Depends on what you want. Old pickups are still dirt cheap and easy to work on - that's why so many guys are building bobbers out of 'em. I just posted on a thread that showed a pic of a '60s Supermodified running a body made out of old Falcon body sides. Go find an early 60s Falcon (preferably a 4 door), cut the sides off it to make this type of rod, put it on a cheap T-bucket chassis (use Chester's $3000 T bucket book), and you could be into a pretty damn righteous and distinctive rod for not a lot of money. Many ways to skin a cat.

My current project/driver is a '68 Mercury Monterey, 390, 4 barrel, A/C. Needs body and a little interior work. Bought her for $1800 running and driving, and I'll have a '60s style mild custom for around $5K when I'm done.

 

Things haven't changed. Except where the price is fixed, new stuff for example. The way it's always been. Otherwise, never pay the asking price without some negotiating.

 

I guess it also brings up the idea of two camps, those who just like to work on/drive old cars, and those who are specific in what they want. Nothing wrong with either one, but for my own sake I would probably be better off in the former as opposed to the latter.

 

So what is it you REALLY want? You gotta focus and get intense. Take a look at Rockys 34 coupe build.

 

You all hit the nail on the head. The one thing though that's killing the e-bay stuff is the cost of shipping (postage). I sold some stuff on e-bay last week and I quoted a price of $15.00 shipping. When I got to the post office the charge was $27.00. I lost 12 bucks on a deal of $75.00 plua e-bay and pay-pal fees. Ok I didn't do my home work. I think that the swap meet and the barter system and the pay it forwrd will be the future, at least for a while.

 

INTENSITY!!!!!! LOL. I guess if you were looking at the two camps, I would sit right about here:

Any Old Car<------------middle----*------>Snob

I like 28-29 2 door sedans OR coupes most of all. But I also appreciate the T body/turtle deck combos, too. I shall be avoiding the 32-34's.....I think my obsession with buck rodding is only growing....plus I ALSO need money for guns, beef, and beer.

I had a similar situation where a HAMB'er in Sweden wanted the 49 Merc grille surround that I had. I looked at going prices on the HAMB and priced it at least $100 lower to get it moving. It was a choice piece, no real bangs on it, no rust, included the hood latch plate and all. I think I sold it for around $400. I warned the guy about shipping before he purchased, he paid me instantly via PayPal....BEFORE I got back with the shipping quote...shipping was like $500 BUCKS!!!!! He paid me instantly. Guns apparently don't kill as badly as shipping nowadays!

 

Methinks, I am agreeing with this here fella....I don't have the extra two doors but, I think the idea is pretty much the same. Got it running and titled and inspected but, could chop...chop and new bucket...some ppl think along the same lines....

 

Could be just me, but I am looking for a project up in the northwest, and there is just as many crazies as there are amazing deals. 2 years ago there was nothing affordable, and I was kicking myself that I sold my caddy. Now there are still lots of overpriced crazies, but the deals are starting to resurface. I missed a complete 59 ranchero for $800, and it was for sale for weeks. The deals are coming back, at least on projects. My dad wanted something finished so he could drive it this summer, and there was nothing reasonable. But he passed on I don't know how many great deals on projects. Give it time, the crazies can't rule forever.

P.S. - still trying to trade my sportster for a car.....

 

28/9 sedans are out there. start scrounging. You see the stuff Chris dug up out in the PNW the other day? Scrounge EVERY ModelA piece you can find and start high grading them. I think I went through 5 doors to get my nice two right now. and the sales of the scab doors paid for the good ones.

 

I'm sniffin' like a mofo! The Northeast is definitely going to require some finesse to pull it off.

On a side note...actually, back to the main subject matter, there's a HUGE swath of hot rodders on the HAMB, but friends I have who have been on here much longer than me also say that it seems the low buck threads are decreasing in number, while the 5K and greater expenditure rods are taking over....even 10k+. Unfortunate, I say.

 

I'm with Gator: cars and bikes are popular now. Rat rods have become a fad. So anything old, even something fubar and rusty now has an increased value.

Brass cars were hot - super hot - in the '70's and early '80's. The old codgers who were into 'em have dropped off; now thirty-some years later the 'deep pockets' now dig musclecars. They were dime-a-dozen when I was in high school. Guess I won't be finding another $400 Roadrunner...

But, Cheers and Fraser used to be popular shows; now they're not. Kelsey Grammer's price to appear has undoubtedly dropped. The prices on certain cars will also drop when the old guys who dig musclecars get old, and the 'deep pocket' guy goes to buy that 5.0L or Civic of his youth, instead of some butt-ugly '68 Dart that has an engine that won't idle under 1200 RPM, guzzles 100+ octane fuel, and still makes 50 less HP than his DSM that has A/C and flies around corners.

And our kids will be on some board, kinda' like this one, bitching about how expensive it is to do a traditional B18/CRX swap.

/.02

-Bill

 

Frugal rods are not dead, ya just have to be rich, well-connected extremely talented, or..............failing all that: Patient.

Unload the burden of a time-line, when parts become more expensive/harder to come by.

When this whole "movement" ( for lack of a better word ) started, it was built on the lack of popularity of available, and for all intents and purposes, junk. It exploited a niche of parts that were obsolete, and uncool.

Now they are just as obsolete, but "cool"...( sorry...Kool )

Now that the winds have changed, and demand is there, and you might find yourself outmatched by those who are funded better than yourself, just keep on building, no matter what the pace...if you are lucky,and it takes long enough to finish, your build style will endure a couple more periods of extreme "uncoolness", and during those periods maybe you can jump on the "holy grails", umm, I mean obsolete junk, and be ready to catch the trend again next time it comes around...

I'm only half joking....If it pleases you, and it comes out well, in the end, it is still worth it, and, in spite of any trends, a well done car, with a clear identity, should still be timeless and valuable, irregardless of the trends.


Take your time, and you will still be around long after the "buy-ins" leave on for greener pastures...

Also,
My daily, my Ranchero, is a nice, frugal car, and it needs a lot to ever be real nice, but, I made sure to shop, and look, and scour until I found a fairly cheap and solid car to drive, that at least looks half-respectable and cures my inclination to become impatient with my "real" builds, since I can get in it and drive anytime...You just gotta out think the game...

Be resourceful, and lay in wait, while making steady advances.
Do the math, too...a great deal 300 miles away, may not be a great deal, once you are all said and done...
Like was also pointed out, trade, inquire, search, and search, and, anywhere you can, figure out if it can be done easier with your own hands, but, also knowing when paying for someone else' hands, in cases, will save you money or time ( same thing...) in the long run.

 

Thats because the folks are posting their slapped together shitboxes on other forums!

Look at Kiwi Kev,Bass,Rocky etc. These are not monied guys and they are building damn nice cars that would be high dollar for most to build! They do it out of ingenuity.

 

TMAN I agree with you. Engine-uity is what it's all about. Horsetrading doesn't hurt either.

Tim

 

Dude...I didn't wanna mention KB. That shit is just dangerous.

Did you guys happen to see the vid of the father/son duo who put a weather balloon into space up here in Brooklyn? Did it with a balloon, helium, iPhone, and HD camera. All very planned out and calculated...and probably for about $999,000.00 less than the monied govt! That's the kind of stuff we need to showcase even more publicly as it relates to our cars. Not to mention every other aspect of American life...but that's a different can of worms.

Yeah, those guys burn it up. Bass' 49 makes me throw up every time I see it....in a good way.

Don't forget to mention Crafty B.....skills so mad that it's talent on loan from God.

 

See, now you are starting to see the light.

 

I certainly hope not, God knows I don't have a lot of coin to build mine with. I've spent much of the last two weekends just going over the whole thing making a list of what I have to replace, what I'd like to replace/upgrade and what can be reconditioned/reused...cleaned up, re-painted, de-rusted and put back into service.

I found myself looking at this stuff differently than I used to. Parts I would have just replaced to save time I'm looking at differently these days due to financial constraints. I won't compromise safety or mechanical integrity but if I can re-use something, it's going back on

 

This debate has been going on for 25+ years. You can build a fun, good-looking car cheap if you try, but you have to be willing to travel, wait, and work. Remember junk yards? They were around before "kits" were and are still your friend. Parts cars are another way, as someone always has cars to get rid of, esp. in the rust belt. It seems like many of those that complain about the costs lately are only interested in V-8 Fords, esp. 32-34's. Very little product and very high demand will always keep them up there, so look elsewhere. Model A's or non-Fords are available reasonably priced. Buy a 78-87 mid sized GM for the engine, trans, rear end and misc parts. Spend the majority of your budget on the old sheet metal and put the thing together. It will take a year or two, but it's fun and can be done. Lots of work, following EVERY lead, ask everyone you encounter if they know where something is and you'll be suprised what's out there.

 

Is the frugal rod dead?

Hell no.

I just turned down an offer from a friend to sell me his '27 Chivvy Truck project, fairly complete for $1500. That's less than he gave for the project 6 year ago.

But there seems to be a shortage of ingenuity in some circles.

 

Supply and Demand

 

I'm here to DEBUNK these myths that this stuff cannot be done inexpensively. I'll refrain from saying "cheap," because I feel that gives a certain connotation to a build. My 20 T will be in at less than 4 grand (although I'm getting close). Granted I have done a ton of scrounging and horse trading and buying parts no one wants. I've already been offered to sell it (at a profit), which is odd, to me, because it's still a pile of parts.

Next up, a 26/27 roadster with loads of goodies. I've been collecting for about 6 months (almost have everything) and I'll have a car that could've be seen within the pages of the Birth of Hot Rodding. The running total on this, so far, $2000 (well, $1100 actually, but I still owe $900 on the engine). I've kept a running balance on what I've spent or sold from the car. This car is rust free and was only missing a decklid. My goal, finshed for under 5k finished with salt caked into the treads.

It's possible. I think it's more possible than ever seeing all the tech and "brought- from-the-dead" threads there are here.

 

Every time scrap goes up, the supply of cheap cars goes down. I just scrapped one myself. Nobody's buying anything, so I let one go that way. Most of the places I used to be able to buy a halfway decent car, cheap, that I could then flip for a reasonable price, make a little money, and not have to price it beyond belief to do it, are gone now. In another 10 or 15 years, you'll be lucky to find any collection of cars at all.

 

Seen this ???

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329070&highlight=the+best+55+caddy+build


Five years worth of work...a weekend at a time...

R-