Ok, well to get it out of the way, I'm as green and green can be when it comes to automatic transmissions. I know basic principles, but no details on what, how, and why it happens inside one. The '53 has been on the road for two weeks now, pics are in my profile if interested... But I have a transmission issue. It's the original '53, 3 speed Ford-O and it was rebuilt this spring by a reputable transmission builder who I've been in contact with, but who is also 200 miles from here...(friend of my parents back home). The original Flathead was rebuilt this spring as well and is in front of the Ford-O. The car runs fatastic; idle, timing, revving, pulls 20 inches of steady vaccuum, sounds great, looks great, etc, etc...all good. ...but the trans slips in 2nd gear sometimes and makes a strange "whrring" sound when I'm pulling up to stop signs/lights(as it's downshifting from 3rd), and then continues to "whir" and slip when I try to take off again. Now granted it has only actually slipped on me three times in two weeks of driving. ...I would say out of every twenty stops and starts, it may slip once, but usually makes the whirring sounds at almost every one. ...and it seems to be more frequesnt the more I drive it in a day... When I first got it running, I drove it around town some that Saturday and Sunday, paying close attention to everything, going slow, taking it easy on everything and everything seemed fine, but on the way home from a picnic on that Monday evening, I stepped on it hard for about 100 to 200 feet and then 2nd gear slipped so bad I couldn't get going after stopping at the stop light. I noticed a "whirring" sound when coming up to the stop light as it downshifted from 3rd to 2nd, and that's when it wouldn't grab 2nd when the light turned green. It just kept "whirring" and slipped the more I gave it gas. We did get going a little bit, so I turned off instead and we pulled it over (both kids and irritated wife in the car). We sat for a few seconds, put it back in "D", it still slipped a little for a block or two, but it got us home. I shut it off, unloaded the car, and then wen to pull it into the garage and it drove in perfectly. However when I took it out the next morning, it made the same whirring sounds again when slowing down, but did not slip when taking off. I just took it around the block...three stops. So I read up on the "Throttle Linkage Z-Bar to Trans Rod Adjustment" ...you know...pull the bar up to the internal stop so that it lines up with your throttle linkage, then back that clevice off exactly 2 1/2 turns and you're done. Sure enough, mine was set all the way at the internal stop and wasn't backed of at all. Ok, so I did that, backed it off 2 1/2 turns, took it out right away and noticed an immidiate improvment in shifting, just in general. Felt more solid. No "whirring" when it downshifted into 2nd when pulling up to a stop sign or anything...Fixed right? not so fast... So, now the car has 30 miles on it (first 30 miles in the last 35 years). So I get brave and we take it shopping about 15 miles away...runs great the whole way except it's running a little hot...ok fine, the engines fresh and a little tight probably, and we were fluctuating between 55 and 70, so I'm ok with that. So we get to the off-ramp and when at the busy stop light there, of course...it "whirs" again and barely pulls off the line to get us to the shopping area...it started to go a little better for second, like it was slipping less, and then for a split second, we hear a quick "grind" as it grabs 2nd gear a little bit more...considered "chatter" I'm guessing? So now I'm pissed. We decide to shop anyway to calm my nerves about having a wife, a three year old, and an 8 month old miles from home and might need to call a buddy to come and get us with a truck and trailer. Anyway, so we're done shopping(about an hour) go to head home and it runs perfect! Not a trans glitch within a mile of it...WTF?! Well, the timing was in fact off some, which is probably why it was running hot I would guess. So I set that and it seems to run cooler now. Ok, fine. But what about that second gear thing????? After talking to the builder again, he said he even checked everything with pressurized air to make sure it worked smoothly and properly before sealing it up. And he "knows" the band was set right...can't figure out why or even how it would come out of adjustment even, but it's something I could check he said. The fluid is "TYPE F" as directed by the builder, the level is dead on(checked when hot, in Neutral), it's still cherry red, and doesn't smell burnt or anything(just like stinky trans fluid). Could it actually be the front band out of adjustment? That band adjustment is about the extent of what I'm able to do on my own with an automatic trans... All that was about a week ago, and I haven't taken it down the road since, I 'm a little apprehensive at the moment... I don't want to grenade the damned thing!!! Any other ideas of what I should be doing or checking??? Anything further than that band adjustment sounds like it needs to see trans doctor... Thanks so much!
Sorry for the length, I just tried to offer as much detail as I could to aid in potential diagnosis. Thanks.
It's been forever since I worked on one of these. Lincoln was President and the War and all. These units started in 2nd and shifted to 3rd. To get 1st was manual low or you accelerated hard,hence the throttle adjustment helped some. I think you have sick intermediate servo. It's leaking and 2nd is not applying fully/at all. Hope this helps but the transmission will probably need to go to a tranny shop. Without experience it's gonna be tough.
Go across the River to Midtown Transmissions in Eau Clair WI. Dave Lamb (Shifts) has worked on many HAMB transmissions and comes Highly Qualified recommended He's very reasonable and close to the cities... good luck!
Thanks wingnutz! But let's say it is the intermediate servo like suggested ...I see that the gap setting is 1/4" when making the front band adjustment and to tighten the set screw to 10 inch pounds, no problem. But would that "servo" have come in the rebuild kit and been replaced? Or do I need to find one somewhere and install a new one?
Thanks wingnutz. Something to consider. But let's say it is the intermediate servo like suggested ...I see that the gap setting is 1/4" when making the front band adjustment and to tighten the set screw to 10 inch pounds, no problem. But would that "servo" have come in the rebuild kit and been replaced? Or do I need to find one somewhere and install a new one?
try posting an ad on www.fordbarn.com i have a 51 victoria with a fordomatic and it makes the whiring sound aswell but shifts fine?
Thanks wingnutz...something to consider. hmmm...I wondered if that's just how they sounded or not, glad you sad that lonwolf...maybe so, but the slipping is obviously out of character. Let's say that it IS the intermediate servo... isn't that something that would have come in the rebuild kit and been replaced??? I've read through the procedure for checking the front band/making that adjustment...making sure it's 1/4". I don't know how it would have come out of adjustment since being rebuilt, but still something that I can check/adjust myself. Thoughts?
Thanks wingnutz...something to consider. hmmm...I wondered if that's just how they sounded or not, glad you sad that lonwolf...maybe so, but the slipping is obviously out of character. Let's say that it IS the intermediate servo... isn't that something that would have come in the rebuild kit and been replaced??? I've read through the procedure for checking the front band/making that adjustment...making sure it's 1/4". I don't know how it would have come out of adjustment since being rebuilt, but still something that I can check/adjust myself. Thoughts?
Will this help? http://www.tocmp.com/manuals/Ford/1958/Service/04/FordOMaticandCruiseOMaticT/04-002.html Flatman
Did your transmission builder do anything with the torque converter? Did he tear into it and make sure all is well? My guess is that the torque converter may have an issue. I know my 53 Merc makes whirring noises every once in awhile, but seems to behave ok. The whirring sound usually comes from the front of the transmission, which is the front pump and converter area. If it shifts (engages) into Dr,Lo, or R without any hesistation then front pump and the mainline pressure is probably good. What does the trans do in Lo and reverse? Does it slip? If not, then your 2nd gear band may need adjustment, or it has a problem applying. If it does slip, then mainline pressure may be really low, meaning front pump. It could also be the torque converter. Biggest culprit in torque converter is the stator sprag clutch. If that does not hold, then slippage may occur.
Inmy experence with the old water cooled and even rarier Air cooled Ford/ Merc- O- matics , I've noticed that the high gear or second gear band can come out of place in a case . I saw it happen on a friends 1951 Mercury as hios was an air cooled model. scrubba
Yeah! Actually, I have a copy of that too. I forgot!!!!! Thanks Flatman!!!!!!!!!!! gives me something to study for a while this evening...
Did the transmission rebuilder do anything with the torque converter? If the stator sprag is not working correctly the trans will slip. What does the trans do in LO and R? If it slips then I would be looking at converter and front pump issues
d2 willys, yep the builder completely disassembled the torque converter and went through it. She's all new and clean... Now with everything said above regarding my troubles... I've continued to drive it to see if it gets worse, does it more often, gets louder, makes ANY other noises or anything... ...and to be friggin' honest, IT'S DRIVEN COMPELTELY PERFECTLY EVER SINCE THAT!!!!!!! WHAT THE HECK?! I've taken it on several 30 mile trips now, driven it to work, a LOT of around town driving, and it does still maked a quick little "whir" once in a while, but it has NEVER slipped or "chattered" or ANYTHING! Not once. Not even and inkling of any slippage. I mean, it even kicks down like it's supposed to...Fluid still looks great and still stinks like new trans fluid... Now I just had one ol'timer, a VERY close friend of the family's who was a ford mechanic for almost 40 years from the 50's through the 80's... and said that this may sounds weird and go against everything I think about transmissions, but that on occastions he had experienced the ford-o-matic simply needing to be driven after a rebuild to get things operating correctly and lubed up and into position. He said to check the front band adjustment after while if I want, but if it's working fine now, odds are something was a bit out of place, a clutch or something perhaps that is now shifted and is working as it should. So I don't know... I guess I drive it and enjoy it until something major happens and then deal with it at that point. Right?
I still want to know what the heck is the whirring noise? As I said, mine does it too. Ah, those Furd and Merc -o-matics!
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