If anyone has read my other recent post, I have aquired a 63.5 Galaxie 500XL and its all original as I can tell. Its a 352 2v auto. As far as the engine goes it starts like a champ with 120,000 on the speedo(1 owner car so it is correct), choke works good, idles smooth, tires are bad so no street time yet. My questions revolve around getting some performance out of it. I will probably do a cam and lifters, and find a 4v intake, what else could I do on a tight budget. The advertized compression is 8.9 to 1 so a mild cam will do, ya know a little more agressive sound. Headers are out of my price range right now but would 390 manifolds fit and would they be larger. I also saw in an article that ford went to a aluminum intake manifold and water pump and shaved 200lbs off, does that sound correct(seem like a lot). Also my father bought a complete disassembled 410 or maybe a 430 from a don't remember what year T-bird would that be an option down the road for a nice powerplant( I read for motormounts you just flip the stock FE's but not sure if trans would work, if not what would). Thanks for the time to bring me up to date on FE's, I've alway been a (cough)chevy(cough) and Pontiac guy. This is my first ford without a 289/302.
id change the intake to alum for sure those damb cast iron stockers are HEAVY i dont know about 200lbs but its got to be close the 390 manifolds will bolt up but for some reason the exhaust manifolds are a royal bite to get off the bolts tend to break or the ears break off the manifolds (think it has something to do with the design) but i dont think they would be any larger then your stockers unless you have a set of the old cast iron factory race headers off a 406,427 etc im sure one of the real fe gurus on here will set me straight if im wrong
Even before I did the cam & lifters, I would look at optimizing the ignition/timing curve. Once you install everything else, look at it again. Great gains to be had, for not much $$$. I would get headers rather than FE manifolds, most of which are fairly bad. There are good 427 Galaxie manifolds...heavy, and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Due to the design of the FE intake, yeah, an aluminum one does make a lot of difference....dunno about 200 lbs with just an intake and WP, though...possibly it had alum heads as well. If the 410 is a FE, it's a direct bolt-in ('66-'67 Mercury). If it is a 410 MEL, which was from (I think) '58 only, it will also have a FE trans case pattern. 430 MELs have the FE trans pattern from '58-'60...'61-up pattern is different. A long tale behind that, but, bottom line, find out the year. If you want to swap engines, you would be better off using a 390 FE, or, if you have the $$$ later, build a 390 stroker.
Manifolds are all going to be restricgtive and are pretty much the same from 352-410. There were some Cobra jet manifolds that were a great improvement but they are about $500 for originals or repros which are now available. Headers are the way to go if you just keep an eye out for them you can find them cheap. IIRC the intake and waterpump swap saves about 86lbs. With that many miles and age of the un-rebuilt engine I'd caution against putting to much time or money trying to squeeze HP out of the old girl. It might make her rebel and bite you. I pass up running cars with 390's in them all the time for $500-$800. A t-bird special from the 64-66 t-bird should all have over 300 HP stock and probably around 325hp.
I guess I wouldn't be asahmed of being a Chebby/Ponch guy. Ya know what they say friends don't let friends drive fords. I don't know that you will shave 200 lbs by changine intake and water pump but you should be able to come close. The intake on an FE is not like a GM intake. The pushrods go through the intake as it takes up about half the width of the head or of a head as you are accustomed. My understanding is that Ford built them that way to save head weight. I'm sure that there is more to it than that but that is the way it was explained to me. The MEL motor should be just about a bolt in when you decide to change it out. I believe that the Ford tranny bolts up to it. But to be on the safe side contact unclescooby on here. He is the local MEL expert. I don't beileve that the 390 exhaust manifold is going to be any higher flow than the 352. Once you get into the 427 exhaust you get into a higher flow manifold. But you won't be able to bolt those to your heads that have an entirely different setup as far as bolt hole configuration. I'm not an FE expert BTW. Just played with a couple of 3 over the years.
you'll save or knock off about 80 lbs. losing the stock iron intake for an alum one. headers, larger diam. exhaust would be a good start. headers and stock exh. manifolds weigh about the same, depending on header length. check FPA for headers. ebay for alum. intake. my 02. love my FE.
Put a 4-barrel on it and drive it for awhile before you start messing with it. A 352 was a pretty nice street engine, and with 120K on the clock, I wouldn't mess with it unless I was tearing it down and rebuilding it. You may like it a lot as-is. If, however, you do want to rebuild it, have the cylinder walls sonic checked. Many 352 blocks can take a 428 bore, and 428 rotating parts aren't that tough to find. Somewhere, HOT ROD Magazine had an article back in the 60s on this and it's on the Net. One more thing - are you sure you have a 352 and not a 390? All FE blocks had "352" cast in on the front pads. When you look at the options for doing a serious performance build vs. keeping her stock and running like a train, you may decide that the juice isn't worth the squeeze. The 390 in my Mercury is stock and will remain so; I had some grand plans until I drove her a few times and realized how sweet the engine is as-is.
Ahem.... the manifold only weighs 80 lbs so replacing it with a 30 lb one will save 50. You'll save another 10 lbs with the aluminum water pump. Put the iron manifold and water pump in a box along with both heads and it'll be 200 lbs. The exhaust manifolds are the same as 390's, the hi performance cast headers are more expensive than tube headers. I'd leave the exhaust manifolds and just put larger dual exhaust on it and if you change the intake make sure to consider things other than weight. An Edelbrock Performer RPM or older F427 are good choices, almost any of the factory aluminum intakes ... except that Tunnel Wedge pictured above ... would be too. An MEL would NOT be a simple swap. The 352 was actually a pretty good engine in those years , the heads are good and a cam and intake and headers will help a bunch. Block can be bored .050" over to 390 size but beyond that should be checked.
If the valve covers have the big block letter F O R D. it should be a 352, and the 390 had the Thunderbird valve covers, IIRC. (I've been looking for a set of either for awhile now) Is there any truth to the FT trucks having bigger flow through their manifolds? I dunno. I guess, IMO, I'd just stick with a dual exhaust, and when money allows, add the aluminum intake and 4bbl.
I would do a leakdown and compression tests,check timing chain and distributor condition etc. to see what I had to work with before i got too involved.If the motor checks out and you are going to change the intake, you are 1/2 way to changing the cam.You have to pull the rockers and pushrods to get the intake off anyway.And if you change the cam you might as well slap another timing chain on it and shoot for 200,000 miles. The choke point is the cast iron manifolds.Can't get too wild putting more in if you can't get it out!! http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/ is an excellent FE site, lots of knowledge there.
Hey Tom...good to see you over here...........get em' straightened out on those FE engines.............. Folks, this guy knows his chit around an FE......... Mark
Thats what I had in mind, if I change the intake might as well do cam and chain, half way there and a picece of mind. Also a leakdown and comp check as well. I do wonder if any work has been done to the engine, it just seems to run too well
They ran forever and if you kept clean oil in 'em and tunned up they ran longer than that. 120K on the clock isn't that much they are not like the modern throw away engines that the general public is accustomed to. I had a friend in the '70s that drove a 4 door 64 Galaxie with 200K on the original engine from SE Kansas to San Diego and back on a dare. He changed plugs on the way back someplace in Arizona. His take on it was he figured he would drive the car all year to and from work and that would be farther than the trip out west. Well that and he said he didn't think he'd ever see the ocean any other way. I think it finally gave it up about a year later, but he said it was because he ran it out of oil.
what is a good telltale sign between a 352 and a 390, I guess I am assuming its a 352 because thats what the tag and being a 2 barrel says, I guess just because its a one owner car doesn't mean the engine hadn't been changed at some point in its 47 years. I believe its got just plain valve covers, don't remember seeing any script. But someone did put some homemade tags (you know the ones that you used the machine, moved the dial for each letter and it stamped it on this plastic tape) saying thunderbird special or something to that effect. Where would the visable numbers be to identify this motor if its a 352 or 390?
Thats what I'm worried about, I'm not looking for huge performance gains. I just figure the stock 2v motor was around 220hp and 370ftlbs, changing to a stock/aftermarket intake with a 4 barrel and a mild cam would bring it up to stock 4 barrel power levels, just a bit more peppy.
There is some good info in this thread. Im looking to do the same to the 352 in my 62 mercury(has 70k). let us know if you do the intake, cam, exhaust work and how it responses.
As far as I know, there's not. You'll need to pull a spark plug and measure the stroke, that is the only difference between the two. I've got an Edelbrock aluminum intake on mine and recently got a Holley Street Avenger, 570 cfm. I also went with a HEI style dizzy to run electronic ignition without the box and wires cluttering the fender. The module is in the dizzy itself. Factory exhaust manifolds, but once I get the money, I'll run Stan's Tri-Y design headers. Not a torque monster by any means, but it'll run once you open it up and let it breath. Runs like a sewing machine. Built the engine, put maybe 50 local miles on it and took off to Tennessee. Haha.
Can't tell from the outside what an FE is. My 428 has 352 cast right on the front of the block.Back in the day I used that mark to "prove" it was only a 352 to unsuspecting opponets who were soon to be spanked...
Ok not all FE,s have 352 cast on the block. The65 up only have that casting . Also the 65 up have four motor mount bolt bosses cast on each side of the bloch the 64 down only have two. See pictures. The 64 and earlier have a oil fill in the intake manifold. Not all 430,s are MEL,s. They made a 430 FE it was found in 59 and 60 Tbirds. The 410 mercury has the same crank as a 428. Any FE will bolt in where a 352 already resides. Oldwolf
Not gonna fill a page with engine advice cause it looks like you're getting plenty. But as a guy whose had his share of 63s I'll throw out this nugget. You've probably got a set of 3.00 gears in it now. Switch to 3.50s. Don't go any deeper than that. I've had 3.00 3.50 and 4.11s in the same 390 powered 63 and the 3.50 felt way better than either of the others. You can get a set of gears for $120, an install kit for $60 and they're easy to install if you've got the tools. After that put a C6 in place of the cruise-o-matic. Cores are easy to find and you can rebuild one of these for about $300 if you do the work yourself. It bolts right in place of the stock tranny. It's the best $500 you'll spend and they'll make the car feel way better than it does now. Nothing like the way an FE accelerates effortlessly at about 1/2 throttle. Even the little 352. OK I'll throw in my 2 cents about the engine too. After making sure everything is in good working order...... 600 Holley on a stock iron intake. Why spend the money on aluminum to save 50 lbs on such a heavy car that ain't gonna make much power anyway. You can probably get an iron intake for free. Get one of those generic summit or jegs 204/214 @ .050 cams. Super cheap, way better than the stock one, small enough you can use the stock valve springs and all that. Stock manifolds with duals. Headers just cost too much. In my personal opinion, don't bother with the factory performance manifolds. They cost as much or more than headers, are heavy, and really don't gain anything on a mild engine. Speaking from experience there. Absolutely 0 ET reduction when I switched a high 14 second 390 car from flat manifolds to 406 style shorty iron headers. Zero, nada, zip, not even any mph gain, they did nothing for it. Bottom line.... gears, C6, carb, intake, cam, and duals.........you'll totally transform it to a fun to drive, super dependable, decent performing car for about a grand. Great...........now I'm yearning for another big ford..........thanks.
I'm not an FE guru, but I'm driving a 65 Country Squire as my daily now, with a 352, factory 4 barrel (that I replaced with a Holley 600), factory dual exhaust, now with glasspacks, 3:00 rear. Surely not the fastest car around, but a lot of fun. Seems like it barely breaks a sweat going up long hills on the highway. I'm livin' the dream! HaHa.
I just drove my 63 Galaxie with a 2v on a 352 to Bonneville and back (Bozeman MT). Ran like a top! I can see the other guys' advice about very mild upgrades being pretty sound, but first things first--put some tires on it and drive it! There are some long, steep hills between here and B-ville and even with a full load (+2 passengers!) she pulled hard. Easily kept pace with my buddy's 61 Cad 390. Couple of times I did wish for 2 more barrels when passing though...
yeah thats some good advice, i`ve done the dive in and tear it down before ive had some fun thing. I am going to put tires on check the brakes(install a dual master) and have some fun first. ....... by the way does anyone know what lift the stock heads will take.
I have a 352 in my '62 Mercury Monterey. I replaced the stock intake with an Edelbrock performer rpm and a Edelbrock 600cfm carb. Like previously mentioned, you will have to take the push rods out before you remove the intake. Also, when you get ready to take the intake off, you will need a couple of buddies to help pick it up unless you take the hood off and use a engine hoist.
I agree with Homespun about optimizing the ignition and timing. I had a 67' F250 that the previous owner had put a 67 410 in. It had some issues so I had to replace the dizzy, it woke the engine up! About the intake. They are heavy as hell. I thought mine was stuck, only to realize I just didn't have enough ass to lift it.
Being an FE enthusiast myself, I have a 64 352 car, and three more running pre-65 390 powered cars. Anyway, I tore the engine down at 130,000+ miles just to replace gaskets and fix the leaks if nothing else. It ran perfect at the time. Put a Comp Cams 260H cam/lifter/spring kit in it and had to change over to adjustable rockers and the pushrods to go with the rockers. 3-angle valve job, rings, bearings, oil pump, double roller t'chain, Aluminum intake for ease of installation and future teardown/maintenance, and an Edelbrock or Carter 600 carb. Car ran awesome when you kicked it down at about 20-25 mph, catching the top end of first gear, and pulled hard until you got going as fast as you needed to go (usually 60-80 mph). This was with stock exhaust manifolds/duals, and 3.00 gears. All the torque and pull you'd need for interstate driving and long uphill runs. Still got it but its not a daily driver anymore. Super smooth running car though. It doesn't need much to be a fun, good running engine in that car.
THAT IS INCORRECT. The Thunderbird 430 was in fact an MEL engine. They built a few of these specifically for NASCAR; Johnny Beauchamp finished 2nd (actually, my granddad swore til his dying day that Johnny won and Lee Petty was a lap down) at Daytona in '59. The largest production FE engine was the 428.
I'd definately go for the dual master, I had each wheel cylinder pop on me one at a time!! Luckily ALL of them went on the way out of my driveway! I'd go to a dual master and swap all the wheel cylinders now, and enjoy it for a while. I've found it's waaaay more motivating to have a driver that needs work than an oversized anchor in your driveway...
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