History Auto racing 1894-1942

Talbot, with Hall Scott aircraft engine, ex Art Austria.

 

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Could be a Chase, based on a couple of 1918 press reports. Obviously not a Sunbeam as suggested in Brian's info though, as it's LHD. I don't think he believed that either!

 

With regard to the photo posted on June 7, 2010 Milton and Richenbacker are not present. Wilbur Shaw, Ralph DePalma, and Cannonball Baker are. The man on the extreme left is probably Earl B. Gilmore.

 

Posts like these are why I just love this thread... and why I learn every day just what a dummy I am. You're always learning, they say. All this time, I thought that "Cannonball" Baker was a fictional name linked to the LA to NY runs and the movies of the 1970s. Duh. Well I'll be dammed if Erwin Baker wasn't a real guy who did all kinds of special and crazy things. Gary

 

Bob,

Thank you kindly! If you haven't seen my build thread on the T, check it out (the link is below, in my "signature"). If you are looking to build something like this and are looking for any help or ideas, just PM me and I would be happy to send you any info, photos and offer any help I can.

I do intend to make the "pilgrimage" to the National Auto Museum to visit the Thomas, the "Grand Lady" herself, for the first time this summer, so I will certainly be taking your advice on contacting the museum and speaking with Mr. Hubbard about perhaps getting a private "visit" with the "ol' girl"....maybe I can persuade him to fire her up for me too ....just a dream maybe, but worth a shot!

Is it better to call the museum or do either of them have a direct email?

Clayton "MrModelT"

 

I'm alway trying to find more information about my "Falls Eight"! I have been racing this racer for 10 years. The Falls is such a strong and wonderful car to race. Such a wonderful Engine! From all the historical reseach I have received, was that the Falls Eight Engine was the Proto-type for the Buick Straight 8......The engine in the Falls Eight Racer is 0001 & the only one known to exist from 8 made.
Would love to hear more if anyone has anymore information.
Shiny side up & Dirty side down!
Carla

 

I found a little more out about the White after talking to a good friend today. I also did a little research and it turns out that Johnny Jenkins finished 7th at the Indy 500 with his White 6-cyl. GF entered by the White Indianapolis Co. It was a 490 CI six and he qualified at 80 MPH and finished the 200 laps at an average of 73MPH and it was car #14, same number as in the photo.

After it being identified by mrmodelt the other day as a six and based on this I think we are looking at a photo of Jenkins posing in this car. The driver even has the White name on his coveralls which is something you usually only see in a big race like this for more exposure for the sponsor. Does anyone know for sure or have a photo of the White that raced in 1912?

 

The Match Race between Oldfield & Johnson took place at the Sheepshead Bay Track in Brooklyn, not at the track that was depicted. That was the Manhattan Beach Motordrome on Coney Island, which was used for "wall of death" motorcycle exhibitions as part of the entertainment on Coney Island.

It should be remembered that the 1910 season was the first season that the AAA Contest Board issued licenses to drivers to participate in AAA-sanctioned events. Exactly how Johnson got his AAA license is still a matter of conjecture, but the Russ Catlin tale just may carry a (very) small germ of truth, even if it most likely did not occur as he relates it.

The match race and the reaction to it had a great deal to do with racism, this being the period that Jim Crow was at his peak. The money certainly played a role, but the issue of Johnson and his race was, front and center, very much the issue.

Oldfield was not given a "lifetime ban," but suspended "indefinitely," a punishment which was reviewed and then dropped, allowing Oldfield back into events sanctioned by the AAA.

 

Good detective work! I would love to know more on this myself and hopefully someone in "H.A.M.B.land" has some good photos of the car.

 

I did not think I would be doing a tech post this morning but I tried something new today that might help some of you out with your projects.

I rebuild early engines so I have a lot of cleaning to do. If I can I take a block or crankcase into the big city and get it hot tanked of washed in a spray washer cabinet which ever is appropriate for the case or block and get off all of the heavy old built up dirt and oil. Never hot tank aluminum or babbitt but it is OK for some bronzes and excellent for cast iron and steel.

After I get done machining a block or crankcase it has become dirty again and contaminated with chips and some oil. To clean an engine clean enough so that there will be no contamination problems is a lot of work. Hot soap and water is the best and scrub brushes, lots of them in different sizes.

A high pressure sprayer is nice but expensive and another machine to take care of. So I thought there might be a better and less expensive way and I found it. If you have a big enough air compressor (I have a 50 yr. old big vee twin 5 HP unit) you can use that for your high pressure part (125-150 PSI seemed to work fine).

I bought the Milton wash gun and accessory kit, http://www.mcmaster.com/#wash-guns/=7h5ohv that you should be able get for a little more than $100 and with the addition of some Simple Green with is biodegradable and citrus acid based I ended being happier than I thought. The Milton gun is a nice high quality piece as they make industrial air line equipment. Get a flip up face shield also to keep your face dry and the solution out of your eyes.

I took the very high tech water jug and with the addition of a hook off of a rubber bungee cord hung that from my belt loop with hot water and cleaner in it. This leaves one hand free and the other to operate the gun. I found that if I sprayed it on used my brushes and the piece was fairly clean that is all I had to do and then rinse. For minor built up oil and dirt I found that if you keep it wet and scrub with a brush every say ten minutes and let the citrus acid work you end up with a nice clean piece. The acid also with time does and very nice job of cleaning off minor aluminum corrosion and brass tarnish.

I don't want to have this sound like a late night TV commercial but after I had cleaned the big Thomas crankcase which was the dirtiest, I had splashed some oil and dirt all over my door and windows. So I sprayed them and then rinsed with water and my dirty windows are now very clean. I think with enough air I will also make a good car washer. I am going to try it on my car trailer which is good sized and tall and aluminum and I think it will be just the thing for that. The citrus acid will brighten up the aluminum also.

Photo 1 shows the gun and jug and hoses. Photo 2 shows the Thomas case before and 3 after. Photos 4-6 show a Mercer Raceabout crankcase that had been rebuilt by another shop before, that had problems and needed to be done over. They had painted the inside with Glipthal a paint that works well for sealing blocks and crankcases and also promotes oil drain back, I also use Glipthal as it works well to seal in any left over sand left over from the casting process that you can't get out but may fall off later. This engine had been together and run some for eight years and and the paint was stained with black varnish and looked awful but you can see how clean it is now, it looks like new. On the outside it cleaned the surface well as you can see and the gun saved me a couple of hours of very hard and wet work.

 

Here is the only other picture of Johnny Jenkins' White "Sixty" car #14 as seen in the "class" photo of the drivers and cars at the starting line prior to the race. The car can be seen on the right side, 3rd from front and the White Co. Team Drivers are seen in the front row between the #12 and #10 cars.

 

Here are a couple of close ups of the White.

 

Unknown, but on several race entries it is shown as 1916/30 so it's not an original build i would guess, (may be someone could clarify)


here's a couple more shots.









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Thanks Keith! This car and the GN that has been featured here are two of my favorite Vintage race cars in the UK. History or not they both have "THE LOOK".

 

Yeah neat alright. There was a V12 HS laying around where I used to work, the customer had had ideas of cutting it up and putting it a HS chassis but I think he might have come to his senses.

Manhattan and Brighton beaches both being on Coney Island on Sheepshead Bay makes it all very confusing, a horse track seems more plausible and I wonder where the Sheepshead Bay horse track was in relation to Brighton. I think the track in the picture is Brighton which sits between Manhattan beach and Coney Island, a NY Times article describes the 'increased banking and macadamizing of the turns'.




The race-race info is intriguing, I see it was postponed twice and a rematch touted in 1911.

 

Madison Square Auto Show 1900- tricycle horde on the boards about to mow down the hapless photographer

 

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I found this photo of a core sample of the track at Indy along with this discription of the different layer....... quite interesting.

2004

Late Summer & Fall 2004: Entire 2 1/2 miles resurfaced, following removal of approximately 2.5 inches from the surface.
2002

March 2002: Entire surface, including bricks at start/finish line, made even smoother by the process of "diamond grinding."
1995

Fall 1995: Entire 2 1/2 miles resurfaced, following removal of 5 inches from the surface, the first occasion on which all pre-exisiting surfaces no longer remained (with the exception of portions removed upon installation of tunnels).
1988

Summer 1988: Entire 2 1/2 miles resurfaced.
1976

Summer 1976: Entire 2 1/2 miles resurfaced with asphalt, the first complete resurfacing since fall of 1909.
1961

October 1961: Balance of brick on main straight covered with asphalt, leaving only the 3-foot strip at the start/finish line still of bricks.
1909

Fall 1909: 3,200,000 street paving bricks laid into the sand, seperated on each side by approximately one-quarter of an inch and, after each section rolled and declared level, a mixture of equal parts of sand and portland cement poured between each brick on all four sides for "fixing." This is the carmel colored area.
1909

Fall 1909: A 2-inch layer of sand placed on top of the existing damaged surface.

Spring & Summer 1909: Original surface of 2-inch layer of creek gravel, followed by 2 inches of crushed limestone topped by an application of taroid, followed by a half-inch coating of crushed stone chips mixe4d in with larger stones, followed by a second heavier coating of taroid and a top dressing of stone dust worked into the surface.

 

I have read a NYT article reporting on the second postponement of the "much anticipated match race between Oldfield and Johnson" due to undesireable weather conditions and a muddy track. There was also the agreement between Oldfield and a moving picture company in that the racing star was to receive a sum for his appearance but the race must be held under clear skies.

There was a documentary about the life of Jack Johnson that aired here a couple of months ago which showed the boxing champ racing around a somewhat worse for wear dirt track while the narrator spoke of his fast lifestyle. Whether this was footage of him practising at Sheepshead Bay before the race with Oldfield, i do not know but it sure was a sunny day.

I'm also intrigued by the race-race 'thing'. I've often wondered if Joe Louis wanted to race against Oldfield, would there have been so much hype? Remember, Louis was a black man that white America accepted.

Another question that i haven't an answer for is the license that was/was not obtained by Johnson from the AAA. Did a person really walk into the AAA offices one day and hand the clerk an application for a competiton license with the name John Luther Johnson? Is this the 'small germ of truth' that Don was referring to?

 

Where do you find all of these photos TH? Fascinating.

Interesting how many times the track has been resurfaced over the decades when one consider's that nobody races on it for most of the year.

 

A balloon race was the first event held at the Speedway in June of 1909 to generate revenue and interest in the automobile races. Seen here are some of the 3,500 paying customers. Outside the track there was a huge traffic jam and 40,000 spectators who watched for free.

This is a deteriorated Curkut photo.

 

The first motorized event was a motorcycle race in August.

 

This photo gives us an idea of what went on during the three days of airplane races that were held in June 1910. Wilbur and Orville Wright participated in the opening events on Monday, June 13. The final attraction on Wednesday was a race between a car and an airplane flying overhead. The plane won by four seconds. The planes flying overhead in this photograph were probably images taken at the events and added to this image by the photographer.

 

Given the importance of New York in the history of American automobile racing, it is always a bit of a surprise to realize just how little most know about the tracks or where they were located.

This might given some of you a better idea as to the relationships of where several of the tracks were located in one section of the New York metropolitan area.

Sorry, "ehdubya," but the track in the picture is the Manhattan Beach Motordrome. The track that The Times is referring to is the Brighton Beach Motordrome, which was the result of the Brighton Beach horse racing track being converted to use by automobiles rather than horses.

The Coney Island Jockey Club Track is the Sheepshead Bay Track. It was a horse racing track located in that Brooklyn neighborhood until a planked board speedway was built on the site in 1915.

The Brooklyn Jockey Club Track is the Gravesend Track.

There are several other significant New York racing tracks not depicted, Morris Park in the Bronx and Empire City in Yonkers, as well as the sites on Long Island used for the Vanderbilt Cup as well as the Briarcliff races north of The City. There were also the speed trails on Staten Island and in Jamaica as well as events across the river in New Jersey.

The role of New York in the early days of American automobile racing and the way that New York horse racing and automobile racing were intertwined seems to be lost on most. It is, however, another story for another time and place.

 

Title: [New York City - bird's-eye view: Motordrome and Manhattan Beach, [Brooklyn] Coney Island]
Date Created/Published: c1912.

I still think it's the Brighton Motordrome looking east towards Manhattan Beach. It most likely inspired the Coney Island Motordrome that opened in 1911, an 85ft circular track widely parroted as the first wall of death on the internets and 1912 Dreamland Motordrome of 100ft banked 56 1/2 degrees. This is no miniature sideshow track so I'd expect to be able to find a historical reference other than this 'rare' public domain photo on eBay.

 

M'lle de Tiers musta raced

 

Believe what you wish, it is your privilege to do so, but that still does not make this the Brighton Beach Track.

 

A female dare devil..... or wodevil at the Wisconsin State Fair. Kind of fits in with ehdubya's circus stunt poster.