A mate of mine has bought himself an OT Ford Fairmont (like a mid spec Aussie Falcon) with a 302, 9" & auto. He asked me if a. it's a Cleveland or a Windsor, & b. where is the engine number. Now, me being a Mopar flat six kind of guy I said "I don't know". Last night I looked everywhere (except in the right place) and couldn't find an engine number. So a. how do you tell a Cleveland from a Windsor & b. where is the engine number Cheers Louie
So didn't they do a 302 Cleveland? I understand these engines were made in Australia (from imported tooling and patterns I assume). Like I said, I know SFA about anything Ford. Thanks for th reply tho. Louie
if it's a 302 it's a windsor made in windsor canada but if it has screw in freeze plugs it is a boss 302 which is base on the clevland built in cleveland
There is a 302 "Cleveland" in Oz This engine was built only in Australia from 1972 to 1985, and was intended to give their consumers a smaller capacity alternative to the 351 Cleveland, as Ford Australia inherited the patterns, molds and tooling for the 'Cleveland' it was a viable alternative to importing the 302 Windsor. Using a locally reproduced 351 Cleveland block, 302 cu in (5.0 L) was attained by reducing the stroke of the 351C from 3.5 to 3.0 inches (89 to 76 mm) and increasing the connecting rod length from 5.780" to 6.030". Additionally, the 302C cylinder heads were redesigned locally, with smaller combustion chamber(from 72cc to 58cc), to compensate for the reduced stroke of the engine. The combination of closed combustion chambered quench heads with smaller 2 barrel style ports made a more powerful setup known in the USA as "Australian Cleveland heads". These heads interchange directly onto 351C engines, and are somewhat sought after outside of Australia as a low-cost method to increase compression ratio. They are a good street alternative to the over ported 4 barrel heads. Using the 302C cylinder heads on an otherwise unmodified 351C may increase the compression ratio beyond a safe level for regular pump fuel. Using the small chamber 302C cylinder heads properly requires engine design checks (deck clearance, piston design, camshaft specifications), all optimized for the intended use. Even though the 302C was not made in Cleveland Ohio, (but in Geelong, Victoria. Australia) the engine has been affectionatley reffered to as the 302C and not the 302G. Ford engine suffixes are confusing enough, to say the least, so to keep it simple call it what it looks like: a Cleveland. Easy way to tell, Upper rad hose goes into the block on a Cleveland. On a Windsor it goes into the intake. Cleveland fuel pump bolts are top and bottom, Windsor side by side.
A differentiation between the Windsor and Cleveland series are the location of the radiator hose the Windsor routed coolant through the intake manifold, with the hose protruding horizontally, while the Cleveland had a dry manifold with the radiator hose connecting vertically to the cylinder block above the cam timing chain cover. more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine
Australia built 302 and 351 Clevelands. You didn't say which year Fairmont - over 20 years worth makes a difference. The early ones up to '71 had Windsors, all Cleveland after that. 88Daryl88's ID method is the easiest if you don't have a clue. When you have a clue you'll realise they look nothing like each other!
The valves in the Windsor engines were all in a straight line. The 351 Cleveland engines had larger offset valves and wider valve covers when introduced with the 1970 models. I don't know if all Clevelands have offset valves.
Clevland heads have 8 bolts holding down the valve cover, the Windsor has 6 bolts. The Clevland block has the thermostat housing that bolts on to the top front of the block, the Windsor has the thermostat housing bolted to the front of the intake manifold.
Cleveland block has the timing chain cover cast in, Windsor is a separate piece that bolts to the block. Cleveland heads have bosses by the spark plugs, Windsors do not. I have had U.S 351C, Boss 351C, U.S. original Ford factory aluminum block, an Aussie 302C from a Falcon XA (I think), Boss 302 and currently have an Aussie pillow block 351C with Gurney Weslake heads as well as some Ford experimental one off parts for the Cleveland. VirgilHilts is absolutely correct in his posts.
The cleveland has no water passage in the intake manifold, hence the thermostat in the block rather than the intake. The block also shrouds the timing chain. I would also say that Virgil Hilts clearly knows his Clevelands. B
Hi... I agree with above replies, but I always found the quickest thing to look at was the fuel pump bolts. If they're horz., it's a windsor...If they're vert, it's a cleveland style. Hope this helps...
Thanks guys, you are all legends. I learned a bit about Fords myself now. I'll pass it all on to my mate. Cheers
You've got a Cleveland. Orange rocker covers? Engine # ? I think they are on a machined surface near the fuel pump. I have a Cleveland in the shop, but not handy right now so don't crucify me if I'm wrong. Windsors are at the rear of the block behind the manifold.
Bottom of the block on passenger side.You might have to remove starter to take a better look. Pictures of the engine would be helpful.
Louie, Have a look at this Wiki link that give you an understanding of the Cleveland motor and some pics showing both Cleveland and Windsor blocks. Hit on the link "Windsor small-block family" for info about them. As they say a picture is a 1000 words. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine
Another easy way to tell cleveland from windsor is that the valve covers on a cleveland are rectangular, and on a windsor are trapezoid- narrower on the intake side. Of course, doesn't work on boss engines...
engine number on an "ozzie" cleveland will be on the block above the fuel pump.if a windsor, could be in a few places. early falcons and fairlanes (67 - 71 (oz ) the number should be at the top of the block at the rear just where the bellhousing meets the block directy behind the back edge of the intake manifold. if an imported engine it could be on the block below the head front or back of the block if that makes any sense. or it make have jack all.... seen that too...how to pick a windsor 302 from a cleveland.... easy the clevo is a big lump of iron and the 302 is a neat lunchbox sized unit!! 351 w is a different jigger all together...... confused.... i am.... more beer
my 302 windsor is an old falcon motor and the engine numbers are at the back just behind the intake manifold
The numbers are behind starter and with a flashlight from underneath the car can be read pretty easy.
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