Thank guys for all the good input. The reason why I'm going with the mini spool is because of time constraints and money. The school kicks us out of our residence by Saturday. There would be nowhere for me to stay after that. I don't have the time or means to go to a junkyard and find another third member at this point. Hell I don't even know where the good yards are around here. And searching Craigslist has turned up few results... I really want a limited slip or locker, but I could only afford a mini spool right now. Once I'm back in Boston I'll have a job and can buy the right stuff.
A little rough? maybe, realistic? FUCKING "A"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've been around this game for nearly 60 years and I don't think I could count the times I've seen young guys (myself included back when You could realistically call me young) who didn't have the proper tools, knowledge, time, or money to build, maintain, and drive a hot rod try to do so. And invariably, unless they had an older,more skilled and knowledgeable mentor, they fucked up more parts and pieces and pissed away what little money they had and in the end, didn't have a thing to show for it. Sadly, in many cases, and I can only thank luck and the Lord I wasn't among them, they injured or killed themselves or innocent people who were innocent bystanders. My advice to young guys these days: Get a decent ride that's cheap to operate, find the local hot rodders and get friendly with them, and be the "gopher" on their projects, try to learn, observe, and pick up all you can. Most times somebody in the group will take interest in you because you're trying to learn, and they'll be the most valuble friend you can have. When you have spare money, buy quality tools till you feel you have enough to get as deep in a project as you want. Then save some more money and find yourself a project to start. But while all this is going on, KEEP THAT DD STOCK and CHEAP and DEPENDABLE to DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If someone had convinced me of this back in the early 50's maybe I wouldn't have had to wait till now to have a nice project, because I wouldn't have pissed away so much money and ruined so many cars that today I'd give my shriveled old left nut for! Dave
Dave, I appreciate your opinion. Unfortunately my truck isn't a hot rod. Its basically just a high mileage stock Ford F100. But I wouldn't give it up for anything because since I started working on it a few years ago, I have learned an incredible amount about classic auto mechanics. As far as I'm concerned, its THE perfect starter vehicle to be learning on. While your opinion is that I am pissing away money and breaking parts left and right for all the wrong reasons, to me it is all worth the price of admission. Its about the learning experience along the way, rather than just the final results. What's the whole point if you always play it safe and don't take on challenges? Life is about the journey, not where you end up. Someday I want to build a hot rod, but I agree with you that I'm not quite there yet. _____ Anyways....... I just remembered that I have a worn out limited slip in my rear end now. But I think its the kind that is installed in the stock carrier because the carrier appears to be the original type. I think I'll still be able to pull out the guts and pop the mini spool in there.
While your opinion is that I am pissing away money and breaking parts left and right for all the wrong reasons, to me it is all worth the price of admission. Its about the learning experience along the way, rather than just the final results. What's the whole point if you always play it safe and don't take on challenges? Life is about the journey, not where you end up.
i've daily driven spooled rear ends for years in everything from cars to trucks...you'll be fine. just dont drive like a bat out of hell til ya get a feel for your cars new handling attributes. personally i prefer a spooled rear to an lsd rear.
i've driven a spool often and far, the race car examples will be a rarity on the street under normal conditions, like it was said before be a bit careful in the rain other than that no worries. as far as the whole quit till you get a job thing, fuck that, hold fast and stay the course learn as you go...
This is WAY worse than running a mini spool. Welding the spider gears will make them brittle and cause them to break much faster than a spool. That is why its only on derby cars and mudboggers. @ Wingnuts Your late model (1st set of pics) and sprint car rear ends (2nd set of pics) are way different than what this guy is trying to do. Please don't compare racing parts to street driven parts. Hes not out there bumping and banging with everyone else. @Dave You don't have many years on me and I still wouldn't give up all the headaches, trouble and wasted money on the cars over the years, nor would I discourage anyone from trying to do it themselves. That is why we have people who do nothing more than write a check for a fancy car these are the oxygen pirates of the car world. Why do you think I gave him a detailed directions on how to do it? So he wouldn't screw it up and waste money, isn't that what mentoring is all about us older guys helping the younger guys?
Tack weld the bearing retainer to the axle so that the axle does not pull through the bearing taking the wheel-tire and drum with the axle. Every first year circle track racer knows that you have to weld the bearing retainer because the axles will pull out, and I have personally seen it a few times.
Now that I've read opinions from the "experts" on spool and locked rear ends. will tell you a true story. This didn't happen to someone I know or heard about. This happened to this old man. mid May 1984. Car, 1948 Ford b-coupe. Big block chevy powered. 9" Ford rear, narrowed, spooled. Had to use my wifes driver that day. She decides she needs to drive 2 miles into town to get cigs etc. Grabs the keys to the old Ford and off she goes. A Michigan mid May light hazy almost drizzle morning. Just outside of town is a lazy "S" curve. She heads into the curve at about 55 mph. The car starts to "push", she loses it. Across traffic, thru a ditch, over a driveway and into the left rear of a year old Buick sedan. Hits her head (mouth) on the steering wheel. Blood all over. Cops called, ambulance etc. This cost ME= repair of Buick. Rental car for owner. New front end ( including a very expensive radiator). rear fender, bumper, MT Sportsman tire and big fat aluminum wheel for old Ford. Tow bills for both vehicles. Ticket. Ambulance. Emergency room, Orthodontic and dental surgery bills and a womans BITCHING for a couple of years. You say "Well insurance should have covered that!" WRONG! In Michigan operating a known defective vehicle (spool) is against the law and insurance company walks away.. So all you guys. WHAT IF? She had hit/injured/killed someone in oncomming traffic? Rolled the Ford? WHAT IF? etc etc. etc. Spools don't belong on the street.. BEEN THERE DONE THAT!!!
BE SURE TO ADD THE GEAR LUBE BEFORE YOU DRIVE AWAY. Don't laugh! It happens too often that the lube was not added. It makes the gears and bearings unhappy and then start to complain. You know the rest of the story.
I'd go with the junkyard rear option and explore the spool when you have more time and resources. The simple pumpkin swap will cost you a couple of hours of time, a gasket and some 90-weight. I'm not big on spools on the street either. Especially with the truck being light in the rear to start. Bob
Matt2491: In the early posts I saw nothing about your DD (daily driver) being a stock old Ford pickup. That is a good choice for a dailydriver. Should be easy to work on, cheap to operate (except gas mileage), and dependable. Now Goddammit all of yall read again what I said next for after you get a daily driver: I said to find the local hotrodders, get to be friends with them, be the gopher and listen and learn all you can. And that hopefully some of the older, more experienced guys would mentor you, teach you some shit, and just generally get you in the right path. I said, buy tools, save money, BUY A PROJECT! But keep that daily driver stock and dependable. And for those who say a spool on the street is a piece of cake, maybe you better read what BOBCRMAN wrote REAL CLOSE. What if there had been a semi , etc. in that oncoming traffic his wife drifted thru because the locked rear and the big tires on the rear caused the car to understeer so much she couldn't get it to turn. What happened was bad, but nowhere near as bad as it could have been. Weld the retainer ring to the axle on a street driven car? The only time I've ever been involved in that stunt was as a passenger in a 9 passenger '59 Chev, Impala on our commute to work. The owner/driver, whom we paid for a ride to work at the old Fisher Body plant in ATL had an axle bearing go bad. When he replaced the bearing, the retainer ring seemed a little loose on the axle journal, so he welded it. 12 miles up the hwy, the axle broke. The break was RIGHT AT THE WELD!!!!!!!!!!! Nuff said???????????? Tell you what, yall just do whatever the fuck you want, my 60 years of old cars and the knowkedge and experience gained is no good to you. Dave
I said tack weld the bearing retainer. This process is done at by thousands of racers who race at hundreds of circle tracks across the nation and the axles do not break. Some racetrack rules require it, because the left side axle will pull out of the bearing if you do not tack weld the retainer. How would you like a flying axle, wheel/tire and brake drum missle coming at you. Now if you run a full bead all the way around the axle, you could possibly cause the axle to break, but racers have been tack welding the bearing retainers to the axles for at least 50 years that I know of. Personally I would not run a spool on the street, but people are going to do what they are going to do, I was just adding some advice that might keep him out of trouble.
Can't remember how much weld was on that axle, tack or full bead all way around. It's been about 55 years ago, and the owner/driver of the wagon has been dead of heart attack for maybe 20 years. All the oval track cars I worked with, owned, built, drove, were equipped with one version or another of "floater" rears and a broken axle had no effect on wheel/axle retention except in the case of the pre'49 Fords with a banjo rear. To me there is a great deal of difference in what you do on a race car and what you do on a street driven vehicle that's out there with other cars whose drivers have a right to being on a road with other vehicles which are repaired and maintained in a safe manner. The race drivers know, and accept the risk involved. Dave
Yes, you're right most circle track racers tack the retainer on the left rear. So what? He's already been driving it and he's not circle track racing... How many people need to weld the retaining rings on a daily street axle? Show of hands? (insert sound of crickets chirping...). Don't over-complicate things for the OP, he's here looking for advice on how to fix his broken DAILY and you guys are showing him sprint car rear ends and such...HUH? Matt, one thing no one has mentioned (that I've seen) is to VERY carefully check the condition of the ring and pinion and all bearings in the 3rd member. If you've broken some parts in there, it's very likely that pieces of metal have gotten tossed around into other areas of the 3rd... I know you've got budget and time issues, but don't put it back together with a mini-spool or anything else if there's other damage. The horror stories on this thread are nothing compared to what will happen if a piece of steel goes thru the ring and pinion and locks the rear end while you're on the freeway... Run the spool, just be very careful turning, as has been pointed out.
I am not talking sprint car rear ends, I am talking about his 9" Ford. What I am talking about is that since there will be no differential action going on, something has to give in a turn. The tires will slip some, but more often than not, what happens is that the axle will start to pull out from the press fit that it has with the bearing, the bearing will stay in the housing, but the axle/wheel/and drum assembly can come out. On a circle track car, the left side usually comes out, but on a street car, it can be either side. A small tack weld will solve the problem. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN!!
Yeah, I got that, thanks. Other posters were showing open tube axles, and I was referring to the general direction the thread was taking... You're still RIGHT, as I said, and he still doesn't need to worry about doing it...
Regardless what any of you guys do, just always remember that if what you do when modifying cars fails and gets someone hurt or killed, this has the potential to hurt the hobby (i.e., public opinion, legislation, etc.) if it occurs often enough. All the "cool" in the world ain't gonna do any of us any good when big brother decides that we shouldn't be hot rodding.
i read it real close, big block car, NARROWED rear end, spooled with big tires and 55 into a corner, don't think anyone will say that's a good idea... far as that goes my wife has wrecked a few cars so far, maybe that was his first mistake
I agree, but how would they know? Don't fuckin' TELL them, just say, "Oops, sorry, I can't drive for shit, here's my insurance card."
Read the story as a shallow, sweeping "S" curve. Not a corner. Speed limit 55. As for telling of the locked rear. The Michigan State Trooper noticed something wrong with the rear, as the car was being dragged from the scene and loaded on flatbed. Was noted in report. First thing insurance investigator ( Dairyland) checked for !!!
You did mention that the roads were just getting wet. Isn't that usually when its the slipperiest anyway?
and MAYBE if she knew how to drive a car with a spool (especially with a narrowed rear so probably had staggered tires up front) then she would have known it would push and wouldnt try to take a turn like that at 55...like i said learn your car. spools are fine.
Today I wanted to try taking apart the axle before my friend gets here tomorrow with all the right tools. However, I could not get the brake drums off after pounding on the back lip and sides of them for an hour or so. It started raining so I had to give it up for now. I'm pretty sure I can get them off once my friend is here with the puller and bigger hammer, but I came across something else that kind of worried me. When I grabbed the drum and tried pulling it, I could feel it slide a little bit back and forth in the rear end. It moves less than an 1/8" but the other side doesn't move at all. Is that the axle bearing or what?
What your feeling is the brake shoes catching a lip on the back of the drum. Un-adjust (back off) the brakes and the drum will slide right off. Then remove the 4 bolts holding the axle in and tap it out with a hammer.
My wife knows better then to take my car without permission. Thats my blood and sweat poured into that car. Not hers. If something happens to my car while she is driving it and its her fault there will be hell to pay. My car does not have a spool just a posi but ive explained "IF" she ever had to take it to not get on it because its got more power then her viberator plugged into a 220 outlet!
Matt, I would absolutely run the spool. I ran one for over 10 years on a dd. Take your time and learn the proper handling methods. It is super easy and can be fun if you want it to be. As for the debate, I get so sick and tired of the naysayers. The shit just gets old. It doesn't matter what you do someone will tell you a story of how someone they know who died or wrecked or caused some major catastrophy. Good luck. BloodyKnuckles
Shizzel, I'm sure its not that shoes catching on a lip because the drum is FROZEN to the hub. The whole thing, axle included, slides in and out.
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