Can't get 283 in my 50 to fire up....something dumb?

Hey Guys,

Finally getting around to firing up the engine.....but NO dice I just wanted to wire it up so I could fire it off to make sure everything is in working order before I move on to more complex endeavors. Here's how I currently have it wired:



The thing in the bottom left hand corner is a remote starter switch that I have so I can keep a safe distance and don't blow my ass off the map It's wired in according to the spec sheet included in there. The rest of the wiring is as it made sense to me.....which may be a problem because a) I might not have as much sense as I think I do, and b) it's turning over fine, but not firing. Fuel is moving through it and into the carb, but after turning over several times, the carb ejects two puffs of air/fuel mixture but no flame. Perhaps the points are off? I tried turning the distributor slightly both clockwise and counter-clockwise to see if that would make a difference, but no banana. Any ideas for the noob?

Thanks!
Adam

 

First make sure you DO have power to the points and they are opening AND closing. Clean them also. Check wiring firing order . And with timimg marks lined up turn dist so points are just open. Now worst case here you may be 180 out or comfirm #1 by pulling the plug and feel for air coming out as mark comes up.

 

What John said.......

 

It's a new distributor/coil. This was my first time installing one, so I checked and double checked the firing order, in addition to doing what you said by putting my finger over #1 to feel for air coming out. I had it set to TDC when the distributor was installed. I guess the next logical thing to do is one of the other things you mentioned, checking the points

 

Yep, as usual John gave some good advice.

You don't say what you have done to the engine as far as rebuild or have it apart but.

I'd start by pulling #1 plug and cranking it over as John said and bring #1 up on compression and getting it on Top dead center. The timing marks should line up on the damper and tab then.

Make sure that the rotor is pointing to #1 wire in the cap and that the points are just opening. The distributor turns clockwise and you should have it wired 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 from that.

If you don't have the fuel pump hooked to a fuel tank of some kind you can take a small container and pour gas down the float bowl vent tube to fill the float bowl and let the engine run for long enough to know if it works right or not.
I've started a lot of them wired pretty much the same way that you show that you have it wired so that shouldn't be an issue if the other things are right.

You might try taking the coil wire out of the cap and holding it close to the manifold or other metal to see if you are indeed getting a spark when you crank it.

 

Looks like we were typing at the same time so I'd say make sure that you do have spark from the coil and go from there.

From past experiences "new" doesn't always mean that the item is "good".

You do have your wire from the battery to the coil on the + post and the distributor hooked to the - post?

 

The coil wire idea is a good one, I'll try that, too.

As far as rebuilding goes, the only things I really did to it were replace the head gaskets/intake gaskets/etc. The engine gets good compression, seemingly no problems there. I forgot to plug the oil pressure inlet behind the intake manifold....next thing you know, ol' Jed's a millionaire!

The fuel pump is brand new and works like a charm, and it's connected to the fuel line and tank.

I set the engine to TDC the exact way you guys mentioned (I found a cool video series on YouTube) in addition to setting the distributor in so that the rotor points toward #1....I hooked up everything from there in the appropriate firing order. Air came out of #1 and it was lined up with the timing tab, too.

 

Yep, wire from battery going to + on coil, and black wire from bottom of distributor going to - on the coil.

 

fuel or fire

 

Fuel is making it into the cylinders...so it's gotta be the fire!!!

 

Check points and set for .015 gap ... ensure that the capacator is inplace ... clean the rotor and the cap contact .... I use a pencil eraser ... should fire ... if it spins over really easy it is late ... if it kicks back it advanced ...

 

Based on my setup as I have it drawn, if I don't have a ballast resistor in there when test firing it (between the I post on the starter and the coil), will that prevent it from getting flame? Maybe my test firing set up is wrong? I thought I could just bypass the ignition post on the starter by having a hot wire going from the battery directly to the coil.

Here's an alternate setup I found on the interwebs...perhaps I should change it to mimic this? (sans the fuse box and swapping out the key ignition for my remote starter)

 

thanks Poboyross .... I wrote capacator / meant condenser ... Points will not work without it.

 

If the points are gapped close to right (you set the gap with the rubbing block on the points on the high point of one of the lobes on the distributor cam.) and every thing else is right it should work the way you have it in the doodle in post #1. You wouldn't want to run it for a long time without a ballast resistor if it needs one but it won't hurt for a couple of minutes of running time.

It should be just as it looks in the drawing in post 12 when you check/set the points.

When you go to wire it up after you put it in the car you want it wired like the drawing in #12 which is a really good one by the way that I intend to save in my file of needed info.

 

Hum sounds familiar .I fired up my 283 a while back and had about the same problems .I checked all the common things you have listed as well .I had a backfire out of the carb ,like a whistle sound when it ran .for me I had a bent push rod .I took them out and checked them all on a flat surface and one was bent just enough so the valve wasnt closing sending exhaust gass up out the carb .just an idea ?

 

>>>>>,You can ruin a condenser by grounding it before you install it.,,or ,,they come bad new outa da box ,,it WILL NOT FIRE without a good condenser,, try a new one ,,,the wiring looks o k ,,

 

I'd settle for backfire......right now I'm just getting backspew! just two tufts of air/fuel...no flame. When I replaced the head gaskets, I took all the push rods out and rolled them on a piece of glass, they all checked out. Doesn't mean I didn't bend them putting them back in, though I would think that even if one were bent a little, I should at least get *some* flame.....that wouldn't bind up the whole process I wouldn't think...right?

 

OK you had the heads off . Did you readjust the valves? Does it act like each cylinder has compression? If you have a compression gauge pull the plugs and check all cylinders have compression ,at this point actuall numbers are not too inportant as long as it is over 75 or so. If no gauge pull plugs and put thumb over each hole while cranking ,should push your thumb off the hole.

 

Plug wires in cap properly indexed for TDC #1 and for correct distributor rotation?

A good blue-white spark at the plug electrode with the plug removed and contacting a good ground source?

Good grounds from the battery to the engine as well as the chassis?

Outer ring of dampener slipped putting the timing mark out of phase with the crank. Right timing tab for the engine and timing mark combo?

Fresh fuel?

Any manifold cranking vacuum? Install a vac gauge to the intake, seal off any other vacuum lines. back off the idle speed screw to close the throttle and spin it over. Should pull maybe 3 to 6 inches cranking.

All kind of basic stuff, but you gotta start somewhere. If nothing else, try turning the key harder!

 

Gota be timming \points .tough without seeing the motor .remember new parts are not always good .check the coil wire \coil .need to check for spark .go from there .

 

Take the red wire from the coil and put it to the R on your starter . plus to R

 

Same difference as taking right off the + on the battery, right?

 

You need spark, fuel and compression for an engine to run. Check your spark first. The first wiring diagram didn't show a ballist resister between the positve wire and + side of coil. On those old Chev igniton setups you need that resister. Check that you didn't burn up the points. Set the points to about the thickness of a match book cover. with the cap off crank over a little to see if the points are opening and closing and there is a little spark to them, also check if the distributor rotor is turning while you crank it over. If points are opening and closing and no spark, change the condensor. If you get alittle spark on those points when opening and closing, you should get some spark from the coil wire when held next to the engine (ground). If the rotor is turning when you crank it over you should get spark coming from the plug wires. Hold a couple close to ground with some insulated plug holders and crank it over. If you got spark to the wires then go to compression. If you hold your hand over the top of carburator and the engine trys to suck your hand while cranking you shoul have enough compression to at least get the engine to fire. Now for fuel, pour alttle gas down the carburator (about a half a cup) and crank it over. If it just cranks, and youdon't have a back fire or any indication it wants to pop over, check your spark again. Good luck. Let us know how this works out.

 

In a 50 Chev? You have it set up to "hot wire", but do you ALSO have the stock wiring in place? My thought is, the key is not to the "ON" position, even if it's bypassed to "hot wire", and the stock wiring is "off", so, it won't start. Now, if it's strictly "hot wired", and won't fire off.......who knows. I only say this because, 49-51 Chevrolets had a 2 way-to-start ignition switch/key, AND a separate STARTER switch. I have had old points AND new points that were in some way grounded, and it kept it from firing; put a different set in, and it was fine. These issues can be a headache to track down, and it usually turns out to be something simple. Keep looking/tracing down, and try different wires to be sure you don't have an open circuit in one of them. Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Had a bad condencer new out of the box once.....made and oval muffler round !! BTW a condencer is a form of capsitor.

Did you make sure the center contact of your dist. cap is makeing
contact?

Coil good? Test it?

Pull a plug, ground it, and crank to check for fire?

Have you done anything with the timeing chain? Set up right?

Good luck

Fish

 

Get your motor to compression on the #1 cylinder, pull your #1 plug and ground it, hook up your power, and with the distributor loose, move it back and forth, do you have spark at the plug ? If you do, your dist is in the right place, and you have fire at the right time, and if you have fuel and compression.....it should run.

If no fire , check your points, condenser, coil, cap, rotor (it's in there, right???? I've done it before ),check the rest of your firing order,
Once all this is verified, try the above test again....


If it fires at the right time, you have fuel, and it still won't run, check for compression, you may have the valves too tight, bleeding off compression, because they're not closing all the way.

Good luck, I've been there

 

The R terminal on the starter only has power when the starter solenoid is engaged, without a steady power source it may fire while cranking, but as soon as you let off the starter it would die. The testing with a test light should lead you to the problem.

 

stick a hei in it to get it running....and check the valves. you can always swap the distributor out later when you get it wired up .......

 

If you have good fire your 283 has to be out of time ,go back to go, and restick dist. look in shop manual for directions. we can hold your hand here on the hamb if you get lost.

 

Wondering about yes or no for spark?? Pull the wire off the coil going to the center of the distributor cap. Crank the engine over while you hold the wire close to a good ground. ( you could just hold the end in your palm if your a man.Ha Ha) if you got spark there, your dist. is working!! Proceed from there on your timing.