I am at my whits in with this one.For the past couple day i have attempted to paint my dash and the paint keeps wrinkling on me in various areas.I originally sanded down to bare metal and used sand able primer then shot Dupli-Color metal flake and it wrinkled up,sanded it back down and shot self etching primer and the metal flake wrinkled up again.......What the hell is the cure for this Upfront thanks
Are you painting in a warm place, at least 65-70°? Make sure to spray several lights coats, let them build up. Sometimes if you goes to heavy, it'll wrinkle like that.
i'm not sure what you mean by wrinkling. is it heavy orange peel or actual wrinkles? if it is heavy orange peel you need to adjust atomization of spray and amount of product going on in a single coat. if it is actual wrinkles it sounds like a reaction between undercoat and topcoat.
It's just below 70% here at the shop and i have attempted to spray piss coats and the problem still occurs
You may not be letting the etch primer dry for long enough. Etch primer has acid in it and if it is not fully dry that acid will reek havoc with anything put overtop of it.
Sounds like ioether a reaction between primer and paint...or, too much thinner. If you are using a spray can, these have alot of thinner, so if you try to go too thick too fast, it will also do this reaction
Yes it's the spray can stuff.I have painted the other metales in the car and they came out great Heavy wrinkles.I should also mention i wiped all down with reduser before spraying.It seems there is contamination
I always like to use all the same products that go together as a system. is your paint and primer compatible? I'd check with the paint shop guy. some paints cant be covered with other paints. I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about will be here soon. I'm no painter, but I play one on the HAMB.
It's the reducer...It's burning down into the etch primer and staying there until you spray your top coat....causing wrinkles... Spray your etch, then a sealer, use wax and grease remover (not thinner) and spray your top coat...shouldn't be a prblem.
is the reducer completely removed from the surface prior to recoat? are you wiping it on then following with a dry towel or just letting it evaporate? you might try cleaning the primed surface with soapy water and rinse well then dry well. like hyway hauler said rattle cans are already pretty thin, so the two may not mix.
I wiped the reducer off...or so i thought ,with lacquer thinner before i shot the flake Could this cause the problem???
i can't say for sure that is the problem, but i would try only wiping with lacquer thinner. enamels can get along with thinner they just dry quicker but lacquers cannot stand reducers. i hope this helps i know it is frustrating to put money and time on something and have to take it off and start over. good luck
your top coat is too "hot" and its eating your primer. make your coats thinner or better yet use a faster drying reducer when mixing your top coat.
I stand to be corrected, but I dont think you should be wiping Lacquer Thinner on any enamels or much of anything else either, it bites in and can cause problems O h I guess i did that once in about 1968 and messed up a car and incidently got fired from that job, just grabbed the wrong can and it sure messed it up
It sounds like you are keeping it too wet. Try a heat gun or a hair drier in between coats, and be patient.
Thanks for all the replies fellas,i guess i will use a few of your suggestions and jump back in on it head first...
Not sure what caused your problem, but I'm kinda with k13. Etch primer contains an acid. Not sure about rattle can stuff, but most automotive manufacturers recommend that etching primer not be directly painted over, another primer should be used over it first. You may be okay if wait long enough that all acid is sure to be gone. But it is tech from back in the lacquer days, so A rattle can lacquer primer should work with it. I would think the etch is a lacquer based product. but you have harsh solvents along with an acid, so incompatabilitys to worry about with products applied over it or lifting sensitive substrates if apply it over them. Etch is a 1k product that is soluable, so it can be softened by reducers in other products applied over it. The acid in it can cause polyester products to stay soft, which is why body filler and certain primers are not usually recommended over or under it. This is what I dislike about etch primer, besides being 1k, too many potential incompatabilitys now or problems that could show up down the road, and the reason I use epoxy, not etch. Also not sure exactly what you used, but should never apply an lacquer based product over an enamel based, as the harsh solvents in lacquers can wrinkle enamels. Enamels, specially without hardener, are very sensitive on recoat, even with itself if not recoated within a certain time period. Sounds like you first applied a lacquer primer, it wrinkled and then applied etch instead. Not sure why the lacquer primer with a rattle can paint over it would lift, if you stripped the whole thing down to metal. The lacquer would provide very little corrosion protection for the metal, but most paints I would think would be compatable over it. The lacquer primer could cause problems if old paint were left and it was a sensitive paint, like enamel on there. Etch could lift the lacquer primer or old paint if applied over it. Also could lift itself on recoat. Epoxy is about the best thing going, I don't think the solvents are as harsh as a lot of other products, so makes a decent sealer. Since it is the only primer that is non porous, it provides very good corrosion protection and a good start for a long lasting durable finish. And is compatable with most things sprayed over it and won't be very sensitive to solvents in other products applied over it. But since its a good 2k product, need equiptment to spray it and proprer protection. You do not wipe with lacquer thinner or reducer to clean for painting. They are not designed to do that job, lacquer thinner flashes off quick, and will only really spread contaminates around. A wax and grease remover or paint prep is what is designed for doing this sort of job. It will float contaminates to the top, to be removed by following right behind with a clean dry rag before it drys. Just make sure you give it plenty of evaporation time before coating over it, specially when used on porous materials that can suck up the solvent (over bodyfiller, fiberglass, ect) I had a beotch of a time painting an interior once back in tech school. Not cause of wrinkling, but dang fisheyes. People like using silicone products (armor all) in there interior, and contaminating everything. Wiped the sucker down well too. Only time In my life I ever used a fisheye eliminator.
Read the directions first. Sounds like your primer isn't fully cured and your top coat being made to go over this primer is just reactivating it which cause's it to lift or wrinkle. Prime your part and take it somewhere warm to fume out and dry the primer all the way through, then spray your top coat. Don't get in a hurry, a dash as you know should be easy even for spray bombs. I used hang small part's by my wood shop stove to dry alittle quicker. Also if you wet sand it, it will open the primers pores and allow it to fume out quicker, but after it is fully dried.
Did you use wax and grease remover before sanding?If not you could have impregnated the surface with oil,grease or wax,wipe it down with a good prep solvent,and start over.
There are many reasons why this occurs but here are a couple I have observed: First of all;just because the top coat and primer are from the same manufacturer does not guarantee that they are compatible.Even if they are compatible,applying a top coat too soon or too long after the base is applied can induce wrinkling. Wrinkling can be caused by several things;among them are solvent attacking the base;solvent in the base still evaporating,or solvent attacking the paint UNDER the base.If you didn't strip off the original paint on the dash,this could be happening. Wiping the surface with lacquer thinner will also cause a reaction with the paint.If I am wiping down a surface prior to spraying,I use a non-ammoniated glass cleaner which will clean the surface of any fingerprint oil or other contaminant and not harm the base paint.Make sure it is completely dry before spraying.Using a wax and grease remover(which is petroleum based)will only cause problems.Some wax and grease removers(DX-440 in particular)are way too hot(chemically)and will actually move base paint.Denatured alcohol is also pretty hot unless you are working over a well cured surface. It has been my observation that if you try and re-coat with a rattle can after more than a few days you will experience wrinkling too.Not sure exactly why.You have to stay within the manufacturer's re-coat times or problems will result.
are the paint and primer both either lacquer-lacquer or lacquer primer enamel paint because if you shoot lacquer over fresh enamel you will get a wrinkle finish even though they are both made by dupli- color doesn't mean they are compatible worth a check When I started typing the post above me wasn't there I got side tracke and when I finished typing and posting it was there but I agree obviously
I use the duplicolor flake all the time for panels...I had the same problem when I first started using it, I wasn't allowing the primer to completely cure before spraying the flake over it.
that's happened to me before.......tried to take a short cut......" a short cut is the longest distance between two points"........ my primer and paint was not compatable, so I got the wrinkled look...it's already been said and I agree with it,.....on bare metal you .....epoxy primer it to seal it,your sandable primer and paint have to be compatible or you get the wrinkled look.......proper prep. work is essential, cleaning, using a green scruffy pad, blowing off with air and a tac rag are useful items for a perfect paint job.......watch the temperature, use the correct reducer for the temperature, and lastly read and follow the directions and ask for help.......you can always sand it off and start again......
probably not your cause but solvent contaminated air can cause problems. I was at Ford when they were building Mustangs and every once in a while they would have about 5 or 6 bodies come out of the paint oven conveyor wrinkled. It turned out that the guy running a tractor sized floor scrubber added some "hot" solvent to the detergent-water mix to clean up grease spots and the fumes from the scrubber was getting sucked into the make up air for the ovens.
If you're using the Duplicolor Metal Flake in the big can (not the same as the little touch up cans), it requires a different primer. I used it to paint something for my son and it came out mint. Not to say that their regular primer wouldn't work, except I never tried that combo. As others stated, always wait for the primer to fully cure. At a 70 degree ambient temperature and reasonably low humidity, I'd give it a couple of days, longer for lower temps and higher humidity. Try it on a scrap part if you have any doubts. Bob
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