Hi --- I've been working on my 32 project for a while and I'm getting ready to paint the frame. It's all new, fresh metal. I'm going in high gloss black. My dilemma is if I should paint it single stage paint, about $200 in material --etching primer --sealer--prep material--and paint. OR have the frame powder coated [at a reputable shop] for $600 Any comments from you guys with powder coated experiences? BILL RINALDI
Interesting to read! Overhere (The Netherlands) powdercoating such a thing is usually cheaper than painting...
I would paint it unless you have some intricate boxing plate with dimple dies and such. The paint can't cover all the nook and crannies but the powder coating can. For the look and money paint would be the way to go if you have standard boxing plates plus single stage shiny gloss black is pretty amazing looking .
I powdercoated my 32' frame in high gloss black and you might actually be able to see some pictures on my profile. It is a pretty tough material and doesn't cost nearly as much as painting. It is pretty glossy but I think painting would give it a higher gloss. You can't use filler on the frame if you are going to powdercoat it so if you have some problem areas it might be better to fill and paint.
I think there is a filler that is rated for the heat that Powder Coating uses so you can get them pretty sick before they are baked. I for one am going to powdercoat the inside and paint the sides of the rails with single stage. I like the way paint ages and I do not mind the scratches and dings along it's journey. Badges of honor experience.
I just painted mine a couple of weeks ago and couldn't be happier with it. I too was debating wheather to paint or powder coat but like what was already mentioned I wanted use filler on the front half of the frame for a super smooth look and couldn't do that with the powder coat. I think the gloss of the paint looks way better than powder coat and if you ever need to touch it up it will blend in alot better. imho
I powder coated the frame on my deuce, it was more economical than the time and materials to paint it, however, the black is not the same as paint, nor was I able to remove minor imperfections in the new steel frame from stamping and welding. I will paint the frame on my new project because I want to avoid the mistakes from the prior build. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409232
We powdercoated this one for the reasons JefferyJames listed. Power coating let us coat it in and out and was a cost effective way to do it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266041
I used to have free access to powder-coating so everything got that, but that was 20 years ago. I personally wouldn't do a '32 chassis in it as, although it might look good initially, any chips and scratches not treated immediately could allow rust to spread underneath the coating and lift it off in sheets. A wet-painted surface is much easier to touch in any damage or missed areas, or if you have to change anything. I coated the tube chassis in my Pop (Anglia) at the time, but as the chassis is not visible on these, the various changes were not a problem. Also, as is usually pointed out in these threads, powder-coating isn't traditional
i powder coated mine black to get all the nooks and crannys then sanded and painted the outside rails ame black as the car, best of both worlds
That would be my main concern. Rust under powdercoat gets ugly fast. Nicks & scratches are a pita to fix too. I like it for smaller parts & pieces that you are pretty sure will never get abused or exposed but would shy away from it on anything that would get abused and/or couldn't be easily replaced. If it ever gets nicked, scratched, or rusted there isn't much you can do to repair it short of baking the powdercoat off & shooting it again. Then again, there is a fendered A coupe here in town that has been almost totally powdercoated. Everything but the body itself got the stuff. JH
Since i'm sure you're going to drive it a lot, I would vote for powder coating. Additionally, I would consider sanding and painting the exposed side rails to match (texture/finish) the rest of the car. Then, you have the best of both worlds. Stu
Are you gonna have fenders? If not, is the body also going to be black, and will you be able to find a paint that matches the powder coating on the frame?
if rust gets under the paint then there was not a good pretreatment. PC is also a great primer, so if you ever want to redo the finish just sand it down and shoot some liquid over. as far as finish of the metal that is entirly up to you to bring a a good peice to shoot. somone brought me a deuce frame to shoot once that had been blasted first which is good for adhesion but leaves a funny finish. so i sanded down all faces that are visual and the thing came out tits. sersouly looked like glass which is another concern which most people bring up is that orange peal on PC is a huge factor but only to a poor shooter. i will say don't use glass black. the gloss scratches literately every time it is touched and can no be buffed. go with a 40% gloss which is more like a matte finish. when i do mine i will shoot it cardinal 40% gloss black.
I think it depends on how picky you are with the overall outcome. PCing can be tough, but I've seen dozens of frames where the PC is chipping off the sharp edges (maybe where it was dinged upon assembly). It's an eyesore in my opinion and tends to be more difficult to touch up due to the thickness of the coating. Because of this possibility, I'm always leery of PCing. With your willingness to possibly spend up to 600 for PCing, I would think that budget isn't a major issue. If you have paint capabilities I would personally skip the single stage paints and go to an epoxy primer, basecoat, and clear. You should be able to cover those for under 600 in material costs and now you have something you can wetsand and buff if you really want it to shine! Also, a rotisserie is a huge advantage when painting a chassis. It allows you to complete entire coats without having to wait for dry time to flip and you can spin it to help you get into those tight spots. Best of luck with what you choose!
William, William , William . Are you confused yet. I have to vote for paint with a good zinc based epoxy primer/sealer. Whether single stage or BC/CC really isnt an issue. Not a fan of PC. It does not have the rust inhibiting qualities of a zinc based epoxy. You want a tough finish use Imron or one of the other similar products but be aware that special care needs to be used when applying this stuff and you cant spot repair it. Zinc based primers are the best for adhesion and rust prevention. To prove the point , take a piece of properly prepared bare metal and apply the zinc primer , let it cure , and then try to remove it . Use you choice of removal method. You will quickly notice that the zinc is imbeded into the grain of the metal. I've been religiously using a zinc based primer since I started repairing cars in the late 60's and have not had a rust related paint failure yet. Zinc is also the only paint material that will stick to aluminum. Hey for giggles do a test. Take two small pieces of sheetmetal . Paint and PC each one and hang them behind the rear tires under the daily driver for a couple of weeks. This time of year in this area will quickly show what works.
I've done several and the results have been all over the place. In this part of the country the coaters have an industrial/ag mentality and can't or won't take the time to do a high quality job. On the other hand some of the wheels I have bought from the wheel companies are slick as a gut, just a difference in whos' doing it and if they give a shit or not.
I had my frame and many other parts powdercoated and I am happy with the results. Before I had it powder coated I fill any small imperfections with a light coat of JB weld and it will take no problem. Here are a couple of pictures to see. Thanks Frenchy
POR15 it. Spray it with POR15 you can get it in many colors and you dont need primer even if you still have some rust on it. POR15 actually works better on rusty metal than clean metal. I own a powder coating operation and we recommend using POR15 instead of powder coating on frames, we wont powder coat frames. We deal with a lot of 4x4 guys and race car guys and they keep telling us the POR15 is more durable. Also easier to touch up if you scratch or nick it. If you nick or scratch a powder coated surface you have a chance of moisture wicking under it and rusting from the underside out. Plus POR15 in my opinion is a stronger finish then powder coat. Cant tell everyone I would be out of business!
Bill; This Steve from Anderson. There is a place in Marion that can powdercoat for consierably less than that. If you are interested PM me and I will find the name and number.
We did this on our 32 frame the results were great. Had a bodyman that does alot of high end cars and he is p/c most of his bodywork says it makes a great primer.
I totally agree Andy, I had a car in recently that was powdercoated about 4 years ago and there was rust under the coating, I can't tell you how difficult it was to get off again
I PC my avatar frame in silver vein(textured that looks like clabbered silver over black). We then sanded the texture from the outside and painted it single stage black. My textured underside tends to hide dirt, oil, and some of the flaws in my gennie (only partially boxed) frame.
OH MY---I am SO confused. Actually I kind of lean toward P.C. the frame and scuff the reveal area and paint that part to match the body. Palos Larry, whats your recommendation for zinc based etching primer? I hope it's not DuPont Varaprime, that stuff is more expesive than powder coating the frame!! Thanks for the input!! BILL RINALDI
Years ago they used to powder coat right to the bare metal. We now have good powder primers that prevent the rust creep under a chip. Bring the frame to me. I'll prime and P/C for $500. Do it all the time.
I used POR 15 on a convertible frame several years ago. After it dried I had to go back and touch up a little and was disapponted that the touch up showed up shinier than the first coat. If exposed to the elements (sun) it flatens out. Talked to the tech guy and he agreed it would and nothing could be done other than recoating the whole frame and not missing anything. It really looked good before I had to touch it up. He did say they were working on a finish that would hold up better. Haven't used any since so do not know how their latest products hold up. I painted another convertible frame glossy black with Concept 1000 single stage and am very pleased with it.
My '34 coupe had a Pete & Jakes Chassis that was powder coated for about $550 in 1989 and it was worth it. It never chipped or cracked ,and always looked great . I would wipe it down with "Simple Green" every spring when I got the car out and put about 3000 miles a summer on it. I sold it in 2004. The car is in Santa Cruz ,Ca. now and I'll bet it still looks great.
All I have to say is when I had the frame and the body powdered coated we had to power wash these parts with muratic acid and rinse all of it off and put them in the oven to dry and the next day we powdered coated no complains from me happy with the results and cost $550.00 for all. You can not assume that by sandblasting these parts and powder coat them it will be ok you have to go through a process such as describe above in my post according to my powder coater. Frenchy
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