metal body filler? (not talking about lead)

My brothers old 63? 880 dodge was rusted out around the rear window. we ground down to bare metal, and built it back with that stuff to fill the pis and small holes. lasted good the 8 yrs he had the car. not a restoration just something to keep the water out and hold the paint on...
Here's a trick for pits from working in a semi truck body shop. They make a catalyzed spot fill mixes like bondo but has finer particles. instead of sanding down a paint chipped ares to make it smooth we'd scuff it with laquer thinner then use a razor blade for a putty knife and scrape the stuff into the pits real smooth. finish it off with some 180 untill it's smooth then a coat of primer=no pitts

anything bondo-ish is made for larger fills, has a tacky layer that needs to come off and doesn't fill pits too good.
catalyzed spot putty sets fast and sands clean with no surface tackiness and fills very small imperfections and feathers out waaaaaay better than bondo. but it is NOT good for using in thick layers, only for pitts and scratches

 

I second it.

 

you must be talking about the two part spot filler, i hate bondo brand products but that one is actually decent, it's two part you mix like body filler,but it's much finer and sands much smoother, it's meant as a surface finish, but it will also fill pits without sanding out.

 

That Metal filler stuff is junk and should never be used on anything that will have a quailty paint job. Do what he states and you will be very pleased with the outcome

 

while all metal shouldnt be your 1st choice, it will stick better than bondo over welded areas, or severly pitted rust areas that really should be replaced.

as the others say, for a top notch job, this stuff can bring ya problems, but its got its place

if you do use the stuff, ya gotta force cure it, or it will ghost for sure.

the times ive used it, we cure it for 10-20 minutes and let id sit overnight before sloppn on the mud.

we also used to put a thin coat over exposed lead , as for a while the urethane paints were reacting with reminants of the flux from the lead jobs, and the all metal would do a good job of sealing it.

skull

 

Yeah, that's the ticket!!!

 

Im familiar with Devcon F. It comes with several different kinds of metals.
Might be more expensive but it doesnt crack.

Back in the 60's the aluminum mix was used to build an extra carb mount on Corvair manifolds to add that second carb on both sides. They raced em so it got plenty hot.

I have seen a Valient slant 6 manifold converted from 2 to 4bbl the same way.

OCee Rich had several articles in Petersen Pubs in 62/63.

 

Have you ever read the can ? Resin is only brittle if it is over catalyzed... and Epoxy is actually less flexible if you actually sealed the weld seam with it as many try to do. The largest flaw is with the user building up thick layers of All metal is actually expansion, and the fact it does this is an example of its flexibilty. Lab Metal is marketed more similar to JB weld and has been around since at least the early 50's, All-Metal is an Autobody filler/sealing product.

I'm not a big fan of All-Metal and would really not recommend it for much but it has it's uses. The main thing it is good for is that it seals pin holes and imperfections in body panels welded with over lapping mig tacks. Which by the way the large part of body shops and home builders don't have a Tig or a person who can use one on sheetmetal. Being thinner than normal fillers All-Metal works it's way into small spaces better, and it NOT as likely to crack out. The area should be sand blasted clean, All-Metal should be wiped in flush with the steel surface not built up or modeled and then sealed with epoxy primer. It is not for large gaps, or flexible areas such as spot weld joints that should have seam sealer on them.

Those looking at the "use spot putty posts" may want to look into Icing its a USC product for final finishing before your last sealer layer. The thinner the better as it is lower in strength and bond than normal body filler, it can crack if put on thick but that is also related to the ratio it is mixed at. The nicest thing is the way it powders away as it sands, and feather edges similar to high build primer. Traditional spot putty is thick lacquer primer in a tube and there are also types of acrylic clay such as sold by TransStar. Icing is catalyzed and will not shrink in pin holes. It is an actual filler for small imperfections, where spot putty is really just for a quick fix to get the car painted and out the door faster. Spot putty that is not catalyzed shrinks and will show up later in anything but the smallest pin hole.

Passing on what a product is used for is more useful than saying it's junk. There is a large amount of bad products out there and opinions vary, experience doesn't. You'll get as many answers as people you ask with body and paint questions but using a product as intended goes a long way before a "this stuff cracked on me story". Body filler is not a substitute for bodywork.

 

thats true, i can agree with that


i will also re-state what has been said on the new catylised puttys.

yes, they are much better than the nitro stuff in a tube, but be extra careful of where and how thick you use it.

body men tend to reach for it as it sands so easy compared to bondo, but as its more resin, less reinforcement, you wanna avoid using it as filler.

ive had a couple hoods come back cracked from that stuff, so we keep it for pin hole repair, and featherinig multi-layers of painton repars, etc

i think that all auto body and paint materials have been pushed out of their range of use so many times that they all can pick up a bad rep


skull

 

Metal filler is crap.. You would be better off to use Kitty Hair.. I think the Aluminum filler dosent even work on Aluminum..

 

I used POR 15 epoxy paint, it is thicker than most paint. You can build it up and sand it smooth to fill in smaller pitting or use a little of the putty as a "skim coat". It will also add strength to the panel and it's moisture resistant. If you check out the rusty floorpan repair procedure you"ll see what I mean. I'm going to use it to repair the driver's floor on my Riv. I used this product with sucess on my 66 F250 and 72 Datsun Z.

 

Havent you read the previous posts?? Maybe your using the "special super secret " kind of alumi-filler that actually works well.

 

great stuff for floor and trunk pans for sure.......wouldnt put it on any outside body panels though....

skull

 

Why not? Not being smart, I really want to know.

 

Like working aluminum sheet metal, using metal body filler is about knowing the proper technique to use it. I spent over 10 years using NOTHING but metal-2-metal filler made by Evercoat. Its harder, so it takes longer to sand and wipes out sanding paper faster, just like sanding bare metal. It does not contain talc like plastic crap filler does, and will not absorb water and rust out your car like plastic filler does. It feathers BETTER than any plastic filler I've ever used, because it is harder it can be made very thin on the edges without flaking or peeling like bondo does, but it takes more sanding and a finer paper to get it that way. But it doesn't change color when mixed with hardner, so most people that haven't the foggiest idea how to use filler over harden it or over mix it, which can cause air bubbles that create pits and cracking. Its definitely not as "user-friendly" as most plastic fillers. But when used properly it yields a better, stronger, and longer lasting result.

I have used it over aluminum and steel bodies, as most of British cars I did bodywork on are about a 50/50 blend of both types of metal, aluminum shrouds with steel fenders. I've produced numerous concourse winning cars using the stuff, and now that some of those jobs are getting close to 20 years old with the same paint and STILL winning shows, I'd have to say that having problems using this type of filler is primarily not being familiar with it. Its not the same as bondo, and can not be used the same way. Every type of filler will crack if applied too thick, and metal filler is decidedly no exception. In fact, I'm sure it does crack worse when made too thick because of its hardness. But if you've got that much filler on your car then you've already done something wrong anyway, learn how to use a hammer and dolly to do bodywork instead of body filler.

By comparison, the plastic bondo used to fill my Challenger's roof/quarter seam gap less than a few years ago by some body hack shop has already absorbed water, swollen, cracked, and lifted the paint. Plastic, talc based bondo is easier to use, no doubt about it. Its also cheaper. And it will eventually absorb water, crack, rust out the metal behind it and fall off your car. I've seen it countless times, and had to repair the holes left behind it on dozens of occasions. But if that's what you want to use, feel free. I will never use standard plastic, talc based "bondo" on any car made out of metal.

 

how do they say in the movies? "WORD!!!!" *giggles frantically*

 

Its really icky to paint over. Matter of fact I don't think you can with anything but more POR-15 and the recoat window is slim to none. If its on there already good luck removing it. Like Skull said, great for stuff that takes abuse; floor pans, fender wells, trunk floors, but no shot for a body panel.

 

On POR 15....I've seen it wrinkle up at the edges, as well as having adhesion problems, if you use a paint with an agressive reducer ( most basecoats, or lacquer).

 

evercoat used to make some stuff called feather fill now it called something else great stuff for pits blast it shoot it with it evercoat makes some good stuff

 

POR-15 says you should paint over it because it's not UV resistant, I thought they said to use just about anything. I guess I'll have to investigate that further.

 

Then whats the best stuff to put on weld seams,back side/and fill the divits on the front side of a mig welded patch?

 

the all metal stuff cracks like hell, hard to sand, have'nt found a brand that does'nt crack
and the stuff is hard to feather in, so you have to leave it low and skim it anyway or you will be there for ever, I don't know your napa store but around here at the parts store nobody knows shit, if your going to buy and use professional body products find you a paint store near you, can help you , and can get you whatever you need, and know what will work with what,etc, etc, they can get you going in the right path instead of holding your hand going the wrong direction

 

Well said, other than incorrect use, and mixing, another issue is material that is too old ( used and exposed to air and /or off the store shelf) , applied in high humidity or extreme hot or cold temperatures. Polyester resin alone starts to break down in three months. If the product is not popular where you are buying from it may have been there since the store opened.

The metal compound contributes to it sanding like a rock as guys have mentioned but I still concur it is much more flexible than most seem to realize. If you smear it on the a sheet of plastic / or peel it off a body spreader etc 1/16 to an1/8 thick as opposed to other fillers, properly mixed but fully cured All-Metal will flex beyond what most others, including soft talc filler will before cracking.

For example anyone who owns an Anglia knows how deep/wide the body line pressing is around the driprail and how it caps the top of the door. At a guess from memory it about 1/2" deep and 2-1/2" at spots....Now think about filling that whole trough smooth with All-Metal after peeling out the rail... On a drag car with a four link, and a blown SBC, its won a few trophys, been on Summit's rag and people flock to it at cruise ins and its been together for 12-15 years now maybe longer. The last time I saw this thing it still had not cracked. Now I don't consider this good work or even a good idea but this shit does flex and if that isn't proof I don't know what is.


For the POR guys they make a product called Tie-Coat to prime over POR before putting paint on top of it.

 

The answer for deeply pitted metal is spray-on polyester glaze/filler. This is basically 2-part catalysed spot filler in sprayable form. I've used the products from Speis Hecker and Standox. Both are excellent. I've used it on panels pitted so bad that tack welds were needed to seal up the deepest ones. The stuff goes on thick - a hood takes a pint; a roof takes a quart. It sands nice, just like spot putty and saves a lot of time. 8 years and counting on my 36 Nash with no problems.

No the downside: the stuff is expensive and can't be sprayed with a normal gun. I think it's about a hundred bucks a quart. If your time is worth $25 an hour, you're money ahead. I've had real good luck spraying it with a $39 Wagner power painter from Menards.

Give it a try. Good luck!

 

The Spies Stuff works great.. As mentioned.. there is a undercoat primer like a etch that has to be applied first.it protects the metal, and gives proper bond for the spray filler... then spies Spray filler over top , after it dries it has to be wiped with a wax and grease remover prior to blocking.. it removes the oily content.. but it still has to be primed after that.. dont wet sand it.. it absorbs moisture just like the fillers.. just dont mix it all at once.. it sets quickly..

 

I had some pitting on the firewall of my truck, so I used a Poly-primer from Clausen called "All-u-need". It's kind of pricey and you have to be exact on your mix, but it worked great. I did 2 med coats, blocked it with 220, 2 more coats, blocked it again with 220, then 400 and it was ready for topcoat. I used a 2.0mm primer gun at about 40 psi. Just don't let it sit in the gun very long. I spent an hour cleaning the gun today because it hardened up in the cup after about 20 mins. You can go to www.rustdefender.com and buy it directly from the company.

 

I seen the pictures.There is no miracle body filler that will help.You need some 19g sheet metal.

 

Well..hate to be the turd in the punchbowl, but here I go..I've used All Metal with marked success. Thing I like about it, is it is vacuum packed, so you don't get those annoying air bubbles or surprise voids after sanding. The other thing is I find it feathers nicely...I think the "ghost lines" may be a result of poor crosshatching/feathering technique.

I've used this stuff on several cars..all of which live in my driveway..recent success is on my truck where I patched welded some cut out wheel wells. Has sat thru 4 NJ winters so far without fail.

Now on a counter to this - I did experience the unforgiveness of the products tendency to not move with the body under extremes - but that was on the nose of my truck and it was worsened by the fact that moisture got in from behind the panel to help pop the repair. Granted - the repair was over a 1/4 inch in the center too..so who's fault was that.

The other complain on the stuff, is it tends to clog your sandpaper upon first cut..I scrape cut it first, then sand. Also, some versions of the product cook faster than others, so you have to work fast.

my 2 cents.