Hey, I've recently become motovated to get the old 208 flatty in the '35 Pontiac Tourer in my backyard going. I've been looking at it for years since I was a little kid (now 24) and now have claim to it. What Grade oil and sparkplugs would you guys recommend. It hasn't been turned over for forever (last rego'd 1958) but it's been in a shed and all the important holes have been covered (oil filler the whole time, carb... most of the time). I took out the plugs and they looked as if it had be running yesterday and in decent tune so I'd say the inside of the cylinder is not too bad. I'm going to do an oil change and have sprayed some penertrating lubricant into the bores through the plugholes, then once I know it's spinning freely, I'll rebuild the carb, distributor and add new plugs and leads. Probaly need a new diaphragm for the fuel pump, do they sell these in a rebuilt kit? What else do you guys recommend doing to help get this beast going again? Thanks
SAE 30 oil, no detergents, turn it gentle or open it up and make sure no valves are stuck before you try. Otherwise you stand a chance of bending a pushrod.
If it turns, pull the plugs & fill the cylinders with Marvel, brake fluid, or diesel fuel. Let it soak for a few days with the drain plug out. Turn engine over by hand a dozen or so times (no pushrods in an L head), replace plugs, fill with oil & put the gas & juice to her. After it fires, warm it up for cooling system & oil pressure checks. Torque the head & manifold bolts. If it runs OK, consider pulling the pan & checking for acid etch on the rod & main bearings. Clean any sludge from the pan & oil pickup.
Sorry... Had to laugh about the pushrods. Photos of the car would be cool. I have a '35 Pontiac 3 window coupe. Suicide doors are cool.
Thanks for the replies. I'd like to but there is not much to look at at the moment. Im just trying to get her running before I strip her down for the rebuild. Then Ill turn my attention to the drive-train. Ps. Any Info about the motor, Gearbox (3 speed manual) and diff would be greatly appreciated
Can't turn this suck over at all....even with my friends helping, the crank handle just twists. I'm going to pull the head and check out the bores, fill them up and let 'em sit longer I suppose. At least the internals of the distributor look like new....one less thing to fix. The Starter is not operating at all, needs to be torn down, as does the generator. What will get this sucker turning I wonder?
Sounds like the engine's in some degree of siezure. The starter doesn't have a chance if this is the case. Soak the bores in Marvel, ATF, diesel, kerosene, whatever, for a few days then try again with a big wrench on the crank. Instead of steady force try shocking with a heavy mallet on the wrench. Both directions of rotation a little at a time each way. Patience, patience grasshopper. You don't want to hurt the ole girl.
Valves, pushrods, lots of things that get stuck you can bend if you're not careful. If it's that tight, it's time to open it up and see what's going on in there.
Wish I could help but I got rid of mine a while ago. What do you have? Coupe sedan? As the other guy said pics would be nice even if they're just a heap right now. I've got a couple in my profile you can check out. Lifestylz do you have any pics? I don't wanna hijack the thread so pm if ya do.. Good luck on getting her started!
use none detergent oil. Also dont try to force it If it wont turn, you will break the rings, if you havent already. Let it soak for a few weeks, try a mixture of oil and gas.
Just so you know, you might hurt it if you try this method, You can try this if you want but I would probably not use a mallet to try to force a seized engine, unless you dont care if you might have to re-ring it. If you want to try to use what you got, then let it soak for a few months if need be. I have tried to force them before, and it usually ends up with a ring job, but every time I just took my time, it usually resulted in a running engine. I have soaked an engine for sometimes 2-3 months.
There is a decent article in the tech archives and waking up slumbering engines. Did you guys make sure the transmission is out of gear and the clutch has released? I have seen it where the trans is in gear and the clutch has rusted itself to the flywheel - we figured it out when the brakes finally broke loose and the entire car moved when we tried to spin the crank.
Thanks for the replies, you guys are a helpful bunch. I'm letting her soak for now and yes, I recently thought that maybe it is in gear or the clutch is caught on the F/W. I did check originally, it seemed in neutral... but now I think about it, there wasn't a really decent east to west movement of the stick. I took the head off a couple of days ago and it was suprising the good condition of the bores and piston crowns, not stepped, scored or anything. Just a light coat of carbon in the chamber and on the crowns. When I pulled the sump plug I was pleasantly surprised to find oil gushing out...just oil (no water) and lots of it, so at least it hasn't been empty or full of watery sludgy shit all this time. I originally poured kerosene in the bores and now I've filled them up with some oil to soak. Can anyone help me out with the engine bolt torque specs? I kinda' flying blind right now lol.... What are the major differences/ interchangability of this flatty to the later pontiac flathead 6's (40's and 50's) ?? I'm trying to keep this traditional (I LOVE traditional rods) using OEM and Fabricated items that are pre '72. I'll try to get some Pics on once I get hold of a camera. p.s is that head gasket just a replacement item or a performance item? Just curious. Is it new? how much you want for it? Thanks.
The head bolt torque spec is 60 ft lbs. This should be done in at least 3 passes. Take a tap and clean out the thread holes so the readings are accurate. And recheck torque once engine is warmed up. If you need any other specs I should have most that are listed. Also on my flathead 6 in the 41 when I did mine , I coated the headgaskets with the permatex spray copper gasket coating.
Just my opinion, but you might as well bite the bullet and pull the thing down. It's stuck, it's not gonna free itself by soaking it in oil, molasses, trans fluid, coca cola, or snake oil. Even if you DO manage to free it up, it's going to need rebuilding if you're planning ever getting out of walking distance from home. There's only ONE way to do it right, and, well, you know in what that is... Be carefull of the pushrods in that old flathead six, they're tricky to find... Brian
What are the major differences/ interchangability of this flatty to the later pontiac flathead 6's (40's and 50's) ?? I think I'll just have to bite the bullet then, out it comes....it's just hard with the space restrictions, and no hoist or engine stand at the moment.
I don't know personally but I know the guy that bought my old engine was replacing a 52 or so Pontiac 6 that someone else had put in his 35 before he bought it. So as far as fitment it should be fine. I can't imagine they didn't change anything between the two eras though..
Hey, just take a 3/4 drive breaker bar and socket with a 5 foot cheater pipe and get your heaviest mate to jump up and down on it. It'll come free. No, but seriously if you're on a budget and/or limited facilities you might want to first try eliminating the possibility of a siezed clutch or trans. You'll be unhooking it anyway so drop the drive (prop) shaft from the rear and see if the trans will turn in neutral. Have someone step on the clutch and see if it will turn with it in gear. This should tell you if things are locked up in the drive line or the engine. Still not sure, you can pull the trans. If you narrow it down to the engine you can drop the pan and start pulling rod caps (keep track of which go where) to locate which cylinders are siezed. Then check main caps one at a time for evidence of binding or corrosion. You could take off the timing chain/gear to determine if the binding is in the valve train. If the bores are as clean as you say without a ridge (step) at the top, you could probably do an "in frame major" or minor rebuild. I don't know if these have babbit or insert bearings? Not nearly as comfortable as working on an engine stand but do-able and you can take one step at a time. If you end up having to pull the block anyway, well you haven't pissed away too much more time.
Hey there, Go down to the chemist and get some eucalyptus oil and pour into the bores and leave for a couple of days. A guy i work with plays around with stationary engines swears by the stuff. Not sure about 35's but... From what ive heard 37 to 48 engines are the same(or very close) 49 to 52 engines are the same 53 engines got alloy pistons and insert brgs and 54s got full pressure lube. 37 to 54 g/boxes and diffs centres are somewhat interchangable
Hey Croney, here's the info you requested. I figured to post it here so it will be usefull to others. There's probably another 10 pages of general repair info. I have a 1950 edition Motors manual, about 15-20 pages for each make . From American Bantam to Willys... These are fairly large pics, but come out out to good here, try to save them to your computer and see if they come out if not I'll post these thru photobucket and post them in regular size.
I can see!!!! Thanks for that info, you really helped me out there Anyone else with info on my beast, feel free to send it my way
You have got a good point there, it PROBABLY will need rebuilt, it probably will need rings and such BUT I have free'd several engines that were locked up tighter than a drum, for example, a flathead v8 in a ford truck I have was siezed for over 30 years. I soaked it for a few months with an oil and gas mixture and it free'd up and does not smoke or have any blow by. I JUST GOT LUCKY but its worth a shot before tearing the whole damn thing down and dumping a bunch of money in a rebuild. Its worth a shot. What have you got to lose.
Hey, While waiting for the soak to take effect, I turned my attention to the body and chassis... pulling the fenders(YAY!) and tearing out the interior (or whats left of it... all that I could really save was the rear seat). Basically just a chassis and body now, almost ready so blast and cut out some rust. It just pisses me off that it was left to get to this point. Making a tool to get the bolt on the crank pulley off as it's not a bolt with a hex head but a bolt with the hex inside. Once I get that off I'll romove the timing chain and see if the bottom end and valve train rotate, then I'll know whats stuck, as I'm pretty sure now it's not the gearbox/clutch being stuck. Got a camera so should be able to upload some pictures soon. Looks hot without fenders.... I also Hear this particular model of Carter W-1 isn't that great in terms of reliability? I was going to just first off going to buy an 1 bbl to 2 bbl adapter and aquire a rebuildable 94 or 97 ( that carter needs a rebuild anyway) and throw it on top of the stock manifold. I plan to fab up a new inlet maifold with twin or triple 2s in the future so this saves me spending money I stuff I won't really be using for long. What you guys think?
I have a friend who is very knowledgeable about old Pontiacs... he owns a '35. He always told me the engines were not very good hence the low survival rate for Pontiacs. Things improved in the late 30's and by the 40's the cars were much better. He redid his '35's engine and he admits it's still not up to running at highway speeds.
From your description of what you saw when you pulled the heads I doubt that it's the engine that's stuck. I'd almost be willing to bet it's the transmission not being in neutral. Just to eliminate the transmission, jack the rear of the car up on one side and try to turn the wheel. Unless your brakes are seized, if the transmission is in neutral, you should be able to turn it.
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