I recently Picked up a 1928 or 29 model A and I cant seem to find any numbers on the frame to register it. Ive gone over her with a high intensity light and a magnifying glass.I even took the body off and nothing! Its not painted and there is little to no rust. Im 99.9% sure this is an original frame. There is no motor as somebody suggested using those numbers for titling so now im lost. Im pretty much open to any suggestions that will result in getting a title for her. I wanna drop in my 51 flattie but theres a lot of work before i get to that stage and if i cant register the car and drive it, why build it? Ive heard mention of folks buying titles and using them but how does that work? Ive fallen head over heels with this baby and i wanna build a solid relationship and take her out to dinner and a movie! Please, can any of you resourceful Hambers out there take my hand and show me the way? Thank you in advance for all the great advice!! Nixtur
I know a guy who had a 29 Ford 2dr. sedan that was the same way. It already had a 302 in place. He called the DMV, they told him to contact the state police. The officer he spoke to there told me him would have to bring the car in on a Wednesday, and be prepared to wait @4-5 hours at the most. He also suggested that he loosen the body so they could lift it up to check for the ID numbers on the frame. That was an idea he didn't want to see happen. So he found a set of punches in his tool box, and using the numbers off of the out of state title. Went to the local DMV. The lady inside came out and after lifting the hood she saw the numbers and the paperwork was then completed. Just a story I heard.
I've "heard" a very similar story. In California you can download the paperwork off of the DMV website and any peace officer can sign it. Especially a hot rod friendly peace officer friend of yours.
You can look forever and not find numbers on a Model A frame. There were never any assigned, all numbers were on the engine block. Frame numbers started in 32. OOPS!!!! see post #21
I 'heard' same story. We..uh...the guy, I mean, did same thing - stamp set using the numbers from the title from other state. Trick was, I...uh, I mean, the guy - used the double-secret STAR stamp at both ends- seems to make DMV folks much more amenable to accepting its presence. If you stamp, be sure to either sand it just a little, and rub some dirt in it and/or paint, then dry, then find a way to 'age' it a little. Nothing more suspicious to DMV than bright shiny numbers on a 75yr old frame. Way I heard it, 'the guy' sailed right through the DMV inspection dj
This page (whole site is useful) shows where the number was on frame, under body at cowl area: http://www.jmodela.2ya.com/ (click on "engine and body numbers" under "questions" for pics of number location) Just so you can scan a smaller area harder... All USA A's were supposed to have the engine number stamped there when engine went into chassis...Canadian A's apparently did not get this. MANY people seem to be unable to find them, sometimes on frames that aren't rusty, so likely there were failures at the factory to follow the book, as well as light and severely rusted numbers. There have been lots of threads about legal, illegal, and grey area paths to title on here. Someone posted methods of raising indistinct numbers with acid...but of course that is only useful if you find a trace of the number.
No numbers on the frame? All three of my early A's (2x28s and a 29)had the same number stamped on the motor and frame. Maybe thats just an Australian build thing? Try finding a motor and using the numbers from that to stamp on it?
I thought the same thing with my 28 tudor.. they are there..99% sure they are there. someone once told me , that Canadian frames may not have been numbered but my car came from Twin falls assembly plant..it has numbers. top frame rail right behind the first cowel bolt..starts with a star ends with a star. I had to clean the shit out of my frame to first find the location, than i had to clean it with acid to etch the edges of them out to clearify them..than i took a sharp tool and traced them over and over untill they shown better..3 out of my 6 numbers had to be brought out of the metal..(like they do when crooks file the numbers off a gun, those numbers are still an impression in the metal and can be found..think forensic science) if you go to this extent and still do not find them..than it is possible you have one that "got missed" if thats the case than you need to do it the right way and the way your DMV rules to complete this process of numbering and registering your vehicle. (do it right) nothing worse than putting your time and money into something you cant use because the "paperwork" wasnt done. do this before spending hours and hours of work and dollar after dollar of buying parts. pm me if you have questions//..been here done this numbers stamped in steel, if they were ever done..are always there..you just need a process to bring them back to be able to be read. the stamping of the number puts a stress in the steel that is way deeper than skin deep. dont give up
They all got numbers , left frame rail just in front of the cowling . Problem is they were not very deep in some cases and you can actually "loose" them if you try and sand them , if the frame is greasy use some oven cleaner and a soft bristle brush , there should be a star stamp also.
I've had several model a frames with numbers. Look on drivers side top of rail under the cowl. I can show you 2 frames I have now with the numbers stamped and ones a 29 we just took the body off of a couple months ago. Had that frame on here for sale and have clear pictures of the numbers.
i won't argue with dick , but i have an A frame right here that has the serial number stamped on it right behind the first body mount hole driver's side just like 067chevy. has the star in front and rear.according to the number it's from June 1930 i've always been told that the number was assigned to the engine , and when it was installed in the frame during assembly that number was hand stamped onto the frame
I recently titled my Model A pickup frame using International Title Service in Las Vegas, NV. My frame had numbers, although the leading "star" was gone. If yours are indeed missing, get the number off of an old block as was suggested in an earlier post, and stamp them yourself. Try and find a hot rod friendly police officer to verify the numbers. Once you've done that, you can use ITS like I did. You'll get a notarized bill of sale, a valid registration from the state of Alabama, and a letter stating that pre 1974 vehicles in Alabama did not have a title. Take all the completed paperwork including the VIN verification to the DMV, and you'll get your title. I just did this last Friday, and sailed through with flying colors. It's titled as it should be, a 1931 Model A pickup, in California. PM me if you have questions...
What do you do if you have a home built frame with no markings, but have a body with a clean title but the tag is not ledgable?
before you stamp any numbers you should check to make sure that they are clear and not already registered. also, you might get into trouble if you just picked a number and later found out it is for a stolen car. the range of serial numbers for each year and month of model A fords is known...you can find them of the Model A Ford Club's website
Serial numbers are dangerous...might lead to a registered car; your car might have been the original owner of someone's "collectable" title; your car's original engine might be in another car using its number for title; endless scenarios are available. Model A's can EASILY turn into three cars trying to use same number...street rodder sells original frame and keeps title for his repro frame, original engine gnerates anothe title application, original frame generates anothe application, the legitimate one. What happens when they all hit the computer?? Does the original frame owner now own all three cars? Also, minor variations can generate trouble...A1234 might register as different from A-1234 in a stae computer... Tiptoe through the mine field...
very very true..and possibly more than 3 different registered cars with the same numbers, if some of the guys bought"historical"paperwork (N.Y. registrations for example) and used those to obtain a title in their state. Remember folks.."registrations" are not titles..and got re-newed each year for the same car with the same numbers each time it got re-registered to the owner to keep the car current..if some one sold 3 or 4 or more of these so called "historical" papers and some have used them to obtain a title..you got a real snakes nest of titled "bad" numbered cars out there.. all i know is my title numbers match my frame numbers.also remember your not titleing an engine, so forget about any engine number, yes they used them, but engines come and go.My engine was out of a 31A..and my car is a 28..so you figure it out.so anyone out there who is running with my numbers are going to be the ones losing their cars to the law if something ever goes down
Here is a pic of my 31 sedan frame number which matches the title . Was just under cowl on drivers side.
Ok, Ok, Ok, I make an attempt to post factual information but in this case I'm WRONG, Well this is one of those deals that in all the frames I've junked I never noticed. I read Bruce's post and said noway, where? So I went out to the frame pile with a sander and sanded down two frames, well after hunting and hunting and sanding low and behold a number shows up. There is no way you are going to see this if the body is on, you would have to pull the body and splash apron. So to correct my glaring error I also am now getting a Model A education thanks to the HAMB, what a country!
Don't feel bad Dick, I have 2 Model A frames and I wasn't able to find numbers on either one. Now that I've read this thread, I'll probably find them in about five minutes too. Thanks HAMBers!
According to Ford policies in production letters, frame numbers started at about end of 1925...Model T numbers seem to have been left off pretty frequently. "What??!? They want us to put on another guy to stamp numbers on TIN CANS?? Put that in the ROUND FILE!" I think a fair number of Model A's were skipped too...I've seen examples without numbers on what seemed to be very clean frames. Probably the frame stamper was pulled as the fill in every time someone on the line called in sick or was eaten by the conveyor belt. After all, by the time the car reached the end of the line, the number was entombed under the forward body rail.
Bruce is right in both his posts. Albeit for one thing....Yes there are a few out there that have no number on them...and a few may have gotten through the production line without it. But Ford also sold replacement frames, and these came with no ID on them what so ever. I have come accross one, that was in an old gas station that was about to be torn down.... the frame was hanging from the ceiling and had a tag on it from Ford and the tag read 'Replacement A Frame' and then the date of 4/29. I did buy it, and sold it to a collector for alot more than I've ever sold an A frame. I was also able to buy 2 tranny's, several sets of garnish moldings, and lots of suspension parts and motor parts. All had Ford script tags and were original.
OK,I dont know much,but! In New York state prior to 1973 the registration was (and still is) legal ownership of your vehicle! Check with ny motor vehicle.Also,however,NY purges its hot file after 5 years.My friend just went thru this,we had the numbers run by the nyc police and they came back clean,but then the state police confiscated the vehicle claiming it was stolen in 1989,and only they can check those "purged" numbers.So be careful,my buddy just lost 5 gees.
I have searched and nothing ive found seems to fit my situation. If i missed it, is there some way you could direct me to the proper post? thanks,nixtur
And because of your honesty, Dick, I look forward to doing business with you. I've been told your "straight up", and now I'm convinced. Way to be.B
My numbers on my model a frame were on the Driver's side just behind the first body mount. If you get really despirate, you might try researching how they pull up serial numbers on guns that have been filed off. At least they can do it on CSI.......Gil Grissom wouldn't lie would he??
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