I notice some people put them over the axle, behind the axle, in front of the axle on the two link bars. What are the pros and cons of each?
they go in the center of the steering wheel and sometimes right in front of the passenger in the dash
I dont think there is a real pro or con list but if you put it behind the axle you wont get as much lift as you would in the other two locations
The air bag usually goes in the passenger seat, unless you can sneak out with out her Seriously though, as stated above, behind axle=less lift when inflated. Inversely, in front of the axle=more lift. On top of the axle=in the way unless you have a really high kick up in the frame. If I were building one right now I would prefer in front of he axle because of the tendancy of the axle to want to twist the pinion yoke upward in acceleration, (thus loading the springs rather than unloading them like if they were behind the axle) and because of the extra lift you can get.
now we are gettin somewhere. I just looked at the triangulated 4 link with shockwave kit today, notice the were behind the axle. made me curious, way out of my price range, but curious.
No real pros or cons of each. Its more a matter of amount of space to work with and/or how much fabrication/design you want to do. Bag on axle is simple and works fine. You get the stiffest (not harsh though) ride with this set up, and the amount of lift is proportional to the height of the inflated air bag. Mounting the bag in front of the axle tends to give slightly more lift and mounting behind the axle slightly less, but it is a pretty minimal difference. Mounting the bags on the link bars give you the best ride quality and depending on where you mount the bag on the bar in relation to the chassis pivot point of the link bar will/can give you alot of height adjustment. I prefer this set up if the room is available. If you do this set up though, just make sure you have good strong lower bars otherwise you'll be bending them if you mount the bag anywhere near the center point of the link bar. Hope that helped. edit** I type too slow!!!! LOL!
That set up was designed as a direct replacment for standard coil -overs, not really for optimum airbag use. Shockwaves work, but I have never liked them personally, especially for the price . They dont have the same amount of lift that can be had with a custom fabbed set up, mainly because like coilovers, they are mounted at an angle. That angle lessens the amount of lift possible.
I don't like the ART Shockwaves. I'm on another forum and I've heard alot of them blow out and can't handle what they are designed for. Plus there expensive.
see this is great info, so you recommend using regular style bags and just building it how I want it. Is the triangulated 4 link still the way to go, or is it necessary?
I think the custom set up is definatley the way to go. Make it how you want it, where you want etc, etc. 4 link is definatley a good way to go. But you can do also do a 2 link or 3 link with a panhard bar or Watts link. If you go with a panhard bar, just make it as long as you can to minimize side to side axle movement during the axles range of motion.
Thanks man, I have been researching the watts linkage set up, looks cool, dont really savvy it yet, but I'm learning. Is shock angle something I should worry a lot about? Read so much lately its confusting.
How much space do you have? I'm not educated alot with airbags, but I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my pickup. I'm not sure how your frame is configured. You could probably do a 3 link... a 4 link.... parrallel 4 link, triangulated 4 link.. etc. Heres something else to look at? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoAu-gPPktQ I'd go with regular bags if I was you. Check out www.suicidedoors.com www.avsontheweb.com www.waylayedinc.com www.streetnshow.com www.gaugemagazine.com and if you want to look at link designs... http://www.candospecialties.com/ Suicide doors has a bunch of different kits, http://www.kplinks.com/home.php?xid=78503629f51ef65c99ad1a02f84fdf6e Thats just some retailers online off the top of my head, I've never purchased from any other them but from the reviews they seem to be good companies to deal with. BTW. if you encounter a company called AIM Industries, or ChassiTech I think it is, there the same company, they make junk.
CON: Not traditional in any sense of the word as preached here. PRO: Good ride and make your car go UP and DOWN, UP and DOWN, UP and DOWN, oh, sorry, that's on the East Side, just UP and DOWN will work in the other parts of town.
I have always heard that behind the axle causes a rough ride and less articulation. I also hear that air ride tech is expensive for what you get. Check the S-10 forum in the baggin it section for what to do and what not to do. They are hard on newbies that don't use the search button, don't say I didn't warn you. We have a lot of comedians on this forum as you have seen from the responses so far, not so there. So lurk and get acquainted with the site and search feature first before you just go asking a newbie question. Custom fab will ALWAYS get you EXACTLY what you want. A kit is a solution to a problem. The problem being the hassle of learning the components, designing and fabbing the system with confidence, going down the road straight, and not breaking down on the road in the rain somewhere. Bolt ons give less hard core features. It's like going to Best buy and getting a speaker box with speakers already in it and an amp all in one. You get ok sound, ok sound level, ok power handling, and a universal box that means that in your particular case, the box won't fit for !@#$. Pretty much a compromise across the board. But if you are confident in your tape measure and welding skills, or your fabricator, custom fab is the only way to go. Personally, I'd never go with a "kit", but I am biased a little...Oh and you will become really bored really quick with a 2 link...
And don't go with any AIM industies websites junk. Not all this stuff is the same. You also buy customer service to choose wisely. Suicidedoors.com is a great place to get your stuff.
Yeah to the OP, S10 Forum usually likes projects like this, theres a bagged International build over there, COE truck build, stuff like that. Plus the airbag section is usually helpful. Its where I learned the bit I know.
I understand about the searches too. Believe me i have been over so many post on this board its crazy. Sometimes just dont find what I'm looking for. If some guys wanna be d eye ck s because the think ( repeat think!! ) they are to cool thats ok by me. Everyone one on here learned from someone somehow somewhere. I would much rather build my own kit, looks like thats the plan now. I just here and see guys who put all this work into stuff they want to build and then it looks or handles like crap, but man they built it so its gotta be cool. Maybe I dont make sense but oh well. I'm still learnin. The newbie thing cracks me up too, I mean I'm new to car suspension and some other things, but at one point in time every guy on here was new to it, whether born into, apprenticed, learned on his own, no matter what. Ramblin again. Anyway thanks for the help everyone, very much apppreciated, even if I missed it inthe search or what not. Cody
Here are a some examples of some custom airbag/link set ups I've done in the past. Parallel 4 link with bags behind axle.
in front of the axle will get you the best of everything, lift, ride quality and load capicity.40 psi will normaly get a car off the ground, wheres the bag over the rear will require around 70psi and there for provide a much firmer ride with little lift.most people that are running bags behind the axles are doing so because of clearence issues in the front, ie gas tanks or huge billet wheels. you never said what kind of car this set up was on? assuming you have the resources id requimend doing a triangle 4 link with the bags on the lower links.
Triangulated 4 link with bags mounted on lower bars. Yes, this 4 link is mounted in reverse and I'm sure there are some people that will come on here and say that it doesnt work (obviously it can and did ) Its definately not recommended for "performance" use i.e. drag racing, but it works on a low horsepower "cruiser" and it eliminates having to move the gas tank. This particular set up got about 11.5 inches of lift from a bag that at 1:1 would normally lift about 8.5 inches. And it rode oh soo good too
i agree with ryno...mine has a triangulated 4-link with the sleeved bags in front of the axle and the shocks in normal place behind the axle,and it rides great.the only probem is there is NO WHERE to run the exhaust unless you run it outside the frame rails. in my case is not an option.
And here is a 3 link (wishbone upper link) Bags mounted directly on top of the axle. This set up works pretty good. I had my doubts when I did this set up of how well the axle would stay centered going around around corners, but suprisingly it did very well. Hardly any movement at all with no tire rub and minimal tire to fender clearance when riding low.
To add to what Ryno said, mounting the bags on the bars will allow you to run even less pressure and get a better ride. The set up I posted ran about 25-30 psi, and lifted about 4 inches (ride height).
To really answer you we need to know what type of vehicle it is. Coil sprung already? truck you will be installing a 4 bar setup in? Cars, vans, wagons, delivery etc I would recomend a double convoluted bag in the 7" dia. On top of the axle is fine Usually more room there than trying to mount it on a link bar. They go to 3" colapsed hight. Now on a truck where the weight in the rear is minimal I would use a tapered sleeve. The reasoning behind mounting a double convoluted bag on the bar is because it is not the correct bag in this situation and needs the extra leverage for a civilized ride. For the tapered sleeve it is crutial that it is setup properly to avoid airbag self destruction. As far as the shockwaves go they are great for their intended pourpose. #1 rule in airride is do not let the airspring rub on anything If you have any other questions feel free to give ma a call 860-564-5667
I decided to add the air bag assist to the rear of my 40 pickup project. It has a parallel leaf spring set up, so the best place for me was in front of the rear axle. All I needed was a little extra support in the rear when the bed is loaded. I dont like air shocks so this was the best for me.
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