History GM takes first steps to axe Pontiac

Did anyone else catch this?

GM, as part of it's bailout plan, wants to "eliminate" Pontiac as an independent brand, and reduce it to a handfull of specuialty cars sold thru it's Buick, Cadillac, and Chevy brands.

Also, Saab, and Hummer could be sold outright.

Does anyone else see this as the wrong move?
I honestly think GM should re-organize itself into a management and finance corporation, and spin off the individual badges into separate companies... Allow them to develop their own consumer driven products that share no common components with sister products....... You know, the way it used to be... Back when GM was profitable and made products the consumers actually wanted to buy.

But what do I know. I'm just a stupid consumer

 

Don't worry, it will cost the consumer/taxpayer either way!

 

Sad and funny at the same time.

The gooberment gives them my money so they can continue to build crappy products.

My taxes go up to cover said bailout funds.

My net income goes down due to higher taxes

I need a new car

Cant afford a $40,000 piece of crap from the big 3 because 50% of what I do actually make goes to taxes

So I find myself down at the Kia dealership... And the vicious cycle continues.

 

Pontiac has not been doing well as of late, it would be a shame for an icon of the industry to go, but what have they built lately that is exciting? Not too much and there's not that many of them on the road.

Look at the foreign Big-3. How many fingers do they have in other pies? Very few from what I see. They keep it simple and do what they do best. The US Big-3 is spread too thin and have a far too complex business base.

They have too many interests in foreign markets and the scope of the business has weakened them instead of making them stronger. I think it would be wise to unload things like Saab and Hummer among other turkeys that are dragging them down.

Bob

 

News from last week

GM DROPPING PONTIAC ?

Pontiac could be the next victim of General Motor worsening financial condition, this according to a report in today’s Detroit Free Press website.

According to the published article, Pontiac would be at the front of three other brands the auto manufacturer proposes dropping in order to put itself in a better position for government financial aid.

The other brands proposed are Saturn, Saab and Hummer.

A GM spokesman has declined to comment on the potential brand eliminations. He said there is no likely to be no advance warning if the plan is put into action.

Published reports indicate GM and fellow domestic manufacturers Chrysler, LLC., and the Ford Motor Company are preparing plans for congress in relation to $25 billion in emergency loans.

Last month U.S. sales hit a 25-year low as the result of a frozen credit market

 

I think so too. Why would they have Saab in the first place? How many are on the road? And Hummer, a hell of a vehicle but is way over priced. The governments of Sweden needs to own Saab and Volvo. They are socialists anyway. And when was the last time you took a car to a dealer to get it fixed? The first thing they do is hook it on a machine and that's a hundred bucks right off the bat. I did this with my Pontiac a couple of weeks ago. Had a bad starter and they could get one from a local supply house for $389 + labor to put it on. I went to Advance and got one for $140 and thought that was outrageous. I hate to see any American line go down the tubes but I don't regret a re-organization under chapter 11. They have been rippin' car owners off for years. Oldsmobile has been gone for a few years and it just made an old Olds more valuable. Could get into politics here real easy but not allowed and for a good reason!

 

Thanks, my wife works for them and we need the money cause taxes are killing us.

 

No more 25 billion for the bailout.............News this morning sez they are upping the request to 34 billion........................at least it's an even number.

 

You have no right to bitch here Bub! Buying a rice-burner? Do your fkn homework 1st

Silverado reg cab p/up UNDER $10K with rebates
Cobalt $21K
A HHR = $25K fully loaded ($29K for the turbo)
Malibu, Impala = $24K loaded
Aura = $26K

 

I'm with Safari Wagon on this one.

Take a good look at the quality gains the Big 3 have had over the years? I've got 205k on my 2004 Trailblazer and I get in it and drive to NY!

Also, look at the fuel economy gains. You that look at all the 80s data should do your homework and support the Big 3. 1 in 7 jobs in the US come from this INCLUDING MINE!

You want to bitch about taxes now, look who's in office and look at the Congress. Dems will hand Dems the gold card.

GM spends way too much money supporting programs that are badge engineered because some 'brand manager' insists he has what the other groups have. When they killed Olds, all of the cars went to other brands, including Saturn. Pontiac/GMC have survived off of badge engineered products for years and now the G8 is a Holden (a bad ass one at that) and the other G cars aren't selling, even if the styling is good.

They aren't looking for a BAILOUT, they are looking for a bridge loan. This isn't Citibank that put all of their loans on idiots who couldn't pay for $30,000 or $3,000,000 mortgages to begin with. That what has killed the credit market and that is what is killing the auto industry. We can't get the operating credit to make next months shipments because the banks are all in trouble from crappy loans to people living beyond their means.

It costs my company about $50 million a month to carry the cost the parts we make for GM in just a few of our locations.

Think of it as your local NAPA. Those 'Hard to Find Parts' that are on the shelves are there through credit. Can't keep those shelves stocked if you can't pay the Net 30 or Net 60 terms because if the money isn't there in 30 or 60, you ain't ordering more! Well, that is where we are with an entire industry!

Sorry for the rant. I expect this thread closed before I finish typing anyway.

Buy your Kia. Expect to get great service every time you go in for your scheduled maintenance to keep your warranty. A guy in my office figures it costs him $400 to $800 every time he gets an oil change because if he doesn't fix what they tell him, they end the warranty! Give me Mr. Goodwrench any day.

 

Let's not drag this down the political path please. My statement was a generalization about the plight of the American consumer, not about myself personally. I'd drive a $500 pinto before I'd EVER buy a kia

 

Ford too is dropping a lot of their off brands and trying to separate from others,such as Mazda, Volvo and such.Desparate times call for desparate measures I guess.

 

My dad and I heard about this yesterday or maybe it was Monday..yeah it was Monday..not good. with Safari and Danimal on this one..it aint a bail out...its a loan..so far the automotive havebeen the only ones who have paid back any of the money loaned to them from the Gov.

 

We have a lot of GM cars and trucks at work, and the quality is top-notch lately. My new HHR included.

 

Living in Ohio and working at a Pontiac dealership for 18 years none of this is good.I am near Dayton which WAS a major GM city.The plant where the Envoy and Trailblazer is built closes in December with no plans to re-tool.Our economy here is in the toilet and getting worse every day.I know we have some product issues but we do need remember what the big three did for this great nation we live in.Just my two cents.

 

Welcome to the 21st Century. There is no longer a good business reason to have multiple marks within one corporate umbrella. GM has been producing different brands on the same assembly lines for decades, so why not sell everything in the same dealerships. why does America need both Chevy and GMC trucks competing for the same customers?

It's time to trim the product lines, cut the multiple overheads created by having 6 or 7 brands building basically the same vehicles. One brand, "GM", building and selling out of one set of stores with one engineering/design group watched over by one set of overpaid executives.

 

Don't forget the dealers who have invested millions in their Pontiac dealerships. Sure they will probably be able to sell Chevrolet, but that means there will be a dealer on every corner, and 3 in the middle !!

 

I just don't know HOW the hell you can justify $140 for a starter...a rebuilt one at that! One of my rides is a '55 DeSoto with a really rare '57 engine, and it's WAY cheaper to drive/maintain than a modern whizz bang electronic car. My Eldorado...replace power steering pump = $700 bill. DeSoto pump...$34 rebuld kit. Eldorado...replace starter (dismantle entire top end of engine to get it out) = $800. DeSoto starter...TOTAL disassembley/rebuild (local Diesal Electric Co.) = $75. And get THIS! Eldorado oil pan leak...$2,800 (partial engine removal required). DeSoto = $13. And on, and on, and on. And by the way, @ 70 mph my 'Dorado gets 27 mpg...the Desoto gets 23. And on, and on ,and on....

 

There will be more "orphan" brands than surving ones before too long. Sad situation.

 

GM has Saab because they sell'em in other countries. Kinda like why Ford had Volvo and also has interest in Mazda. GM also owns Holden and toher makes/brands in other countries as well.

FWIW I always thought it was odd for US manufacturers to be competing against themselves for market share. If you break it down GM advertises against itself with Pontiac, Chevy, etc. The foreign companies have their base brand name and then the "luxury" version. Toyota has it's base Toyota brand and the Lexus luxury brand.

A chapter 11 reorganization is probably long overdue and allowing them to restructure is a good move. While we may not like to see some brands go away it would be far worse to lose all of it.

I know there are those that say the auto industry "can't" go away. That maybe so but it can certainly be left only a shadow of itself.

 

I have been a die hard Pontiac man since the 60's, and I was a Master Pontiac Salesman in the late 90's thru 2002. When I retired in 2002, I could see the handwriting on the wall. At the Buick-Pontiac-GMC store where I worked we sold twice as many GMC products as we did Pontiacs and Buicks COMBINED! And I've heard it has gotten worse since then. I agree with the other posters on here. For way too long GM has had too many duplicate models among its brands.

As hard as it is to say for me, Pontiac should be gone. As well as GMC trucks (or Chevy trucks, one or the other) As far as the Buicks, they claim they sell very well overseas (China), but I understand that is not the same car they sell here in the US.
The quality of GM has greatly improved in the last several years and now is very competetive with the Japanese brands. GM can be a viable company, but with MAJOR restructing (including some major union concessions, if not getting rid of the unions altogether).

 

If they do not get their bail-out they will probably close the plants, Fire everybody, file for reorganization, and place an ad in the Detroit Free Press: Now hiring automovie assemblers, $7.25 per hour to start.

 

If they don't get the "bridge loans"......I will be out of work as well as most of my family. Nice, after 45 years in the business.

The investments I've made in our hot rods are looking better all the time, good thing I don't owe anyone money............................."would you like fries with that burger?"

 

That's one good reason that Pontiac should be spun off. Put the brand into the hands of some people who actually want Pontiac to succeed and you'll see some original designs,etc. come out of it.

It will be a shame to see Pontiac go the way of Oldsmobile. But then, GM has been competing against itself for too many years anyway.

I'd love to see Hummer take a big dump and become extinct.

 

Actually... at the last election the socialists (social democrats) were booted. The present government has stated that they won't buy either Volvo or SAAB, one of their policies has been to sell state owned companies.

It feels like GM and Ford kinda blew the opportunity to do something good with Volvo and SAAB. Didn't Ford own Range Rover, Jaguar and Aston Martin too? It think that didn't go to well either.

Compare it to BMW who bought the Mini trademark (+ some other english junk that they promptly discarded) and released the new Mini, which is a pretty common car on this side of the Atlantic. With this car BMW also took it's first step into a segment they hadn't been in earlier, small(er) front wheel drive cars. And of course... they created a lot of buzz around the Mini/BMW brand.

The men and women at GM and Ford should have done something similar with Volvo/SAAB. Not because these cars would have sold in huge volumes but to create interest for the other brands in each company, and maybe move the companies image toward new groups of consumers.

I know SAAB and Volvo are extremely odd cars in the US, just as (new) american cars are here. American Ford are extremely uncommon, you can see some Chryslers and Jeeps from time to time, and if you ever see a GM car it's a Daewoo with Chevy emblem.

 

There will never be a time to do this with less pain to the dealer network. Right now dealers are closing left and right, leaving holes in markets. It's a lot easier for a pontiac dealer to convert to chevys if the established chevy dealer 4 miles up the road is freshly closed.

Not saying anything about if it should be done, or any kind of quality or political statement. Just pointing out a different angle.

 

Actually quite a few Volvos here, popular with the YUPPIE crowd, Saabs seldom seen. Buicks sold in China are Holdens, i believe. GM might do well with Chevy @ the low end, Buick medium priced & Caddy for high end cars. I suspect Mercury won't be around much longer.

 

Why do you need a $40K vehicle?

You can get a nicely optioned car or truck for $25k or less (assuming you use the current rebates)

 

>>"But then, GM has been competing against itself for too many years anyway."<<
This has been disproven with the discontinuance of Olds- those customers almost as a whole left GM- they did not switch over to an "identical" Buick. Pontiac buyers for the most part do not buy Chevys, and discontinuing Pontiac will only throw a quarter million sales away to the foreign brands.
GMC is almost all profit and the 2nd highest volume division after Chevy. Dropping GMC just because it's trucks are viewed as 'rebadges' will again only drive those customers away from GM- moreso than the Olds/Buick situation, from my observations. That's another 400K units gone.
The GM Plan cannot act on emotion or the intangible, it HAS to be a strict business case senario. If GMC is making money, it HAS to stay- otherwise dropping it is just another public/goobermental perception problem like corporate jet flights to DC. If discontinuing Pontiac will cost the Corp more in dealer buy-outs and bad PR, reduce it to a few-model niche brand, ala scion, if that works on the balance sheet.

 

I wept bitter tears at the loss of my sacred Oldsmobile, am still driving and enjoying my 4.0 Aurora, and will do so until no longer practical to keep running (192K miles at present). This, and Buick still stodges on to lukewarm reviews, 3.8 engines, what a force-fed loss. GM and Ford are beyond the tipping point, I think, just like the steel companies, who you will recall also got import tarriffs, their industry STILL went mostly bankrupt after shedding their legacy costs, and accepting taxpayer monies. Now their shackles are off, and you and I pay the retirees through SS. 2¢ by CW