Trying to get paint on my dad's car. This happened on the tops of the doors. It happened to one door worse then the other. Happened after we sprayed clear with pearl in it over the base coat. I thought maybe something wasn't compatible, but it was fine when we sprayed it on the grill shell. The doors are fiberglass, and the grill shell is aluminum if that makes a difference. Is it possible that we didn't wait long enough between coats and trapped some solvents? We waited 30 min between coats like we were told. It looks all rippeled like it does when you use paint remover. Anyone know what we did wrong?
just a guess but it looks like too much material or the mixing of products that don't work together. Probably have to strip it all the way down and try again. You did use the right hardner and reducer didn't you. Just asking it is hard to determine from just a photo. Hope it works out RED
Looks like you sprayed laquer over enamel. Whatever you sprayed it was definetly stronger than what you sprayed it on, and it fried or lifted it.
someone has already told me that they think it's the primer. On the fiberglass we used Polyprimer hi-fill polyester primer surfacer, DuPont Master tint 801J White, and Autopia Premuim plus clear. It may be the primer because as I said it didnt happen on the grill shell and we used a different primer. There we used 195 Pro etch, and the same base and clear.
If you used just a tint for the base then that could be an issue. I usually wait a minimum of 45 minutes after the base was laid down before I start spraying the clear. Something definitely went sour and if I was you take it back down to the bare metal/fiberglass and start over using just one paint system for the job and not a hodge podge of manufacturers products.
Cretin, Lord knows there are more experienced people here, but I have had my share of paint problems- Looking at the pictures it appears the paint has reticulation- it appears to look like a finger print design throughout the finish. It also appears that you have a waterfall run over the rounded portion of the body. My Lowly FNG opinion is that the paint was piled on too heavy, maybe due to temp change (Slowing dry time) and may have caused the problem. Maybe the unaffected or at least less affected areas had less paint thickness causing less problems. I'm not preaching 'cause I've had worse results. Good news its possible you could sand out the affected area and re shoot. Well anyway thats my (2) ah...I mean (1) cent worth- Good luck Cretin-
How old was your hardener? Was it ever left open? Is the wrinkled surface "soft" but dry to the touch? Can you dig your fingernail into as an example? There is a contamination under the top coat of clear. It has lifted or melted the substrate. This could be caused by a million different scenarios. Like, was it new fiberglass? How did you prep the glass before you primed it? Did you make sure that the "release agent" used to take fiberglass out of the mold was completely gone? As far as sanding it down and shooting over it, don't bother unless you just want to strip off TWO new layers of paint instead of the one you have. If you dig your fingernail into it you will find that the topcoat is almost hard, but the paint underneath will be soft and melted. There is no way to just smooth over the surface without having it wrinkle again as soon as you spray fresh paint/solvents on top of it. Even a sealer will not work.
You could always do the rest of the car to match and start a new trend.Im just messing with you i have messed up many a painting projects myself.The bad thing is i am actually real skilled at spraying ,i just get neat chemical reactions like you got or orange peel 1/2 the time.It does kinda look like lacquer sprayed over enamel though...
If the products were applied too heavily, they would run, not shrink. This is what happens when you use products that are not compatible. It happened to my friend who LOVES to steal my paint (without asking) and change the color of the cafe tail on his bike. Long story short, he used a rattle can of my clear and got what was coming to him for using my stuff. I'd bet money on the primer. Get a sample piece of metal and/or glass and shoot some tests before you go to the trouble of shooting the car again.
you can do this, just be sure to just dust the paint on this time lightly or it could easily happen again
The problem with this approach is the raised "fingerprint" ridges that you will be trying to eliminate. When you sand them down, basically you will be opening up the hollow "hump" that each of these small ridges actually is. They will then be fine cracks that will allow the fresh paint and thinners and solvents to leach right into the already soft and contaminated areas and screw up the next paint job. AND even if you WERE to get it to lay down, the contaminated and uncured ridges of paint under the surface will continue to dry for months and months. Sand and buff it and 6 weeks later you will see the ridges again. Eventually you will sand through them trying to buff them out. But, go ahead and try it if you want. That's how painters get experience. Doing it over and over again!
Maybe this will help... WRINKLING: The surface of the paint contains irregular grooves or ridges resembling the skin of a prune. CAUSE Excessive film thickness or "piling on" of heavy wet coats. Placing a newly painted finish in hot sun too soon after spraying. Using lacquer thinner to reduce synthetic enamel. Spraying in extreme hot, humid weather conditions. Under reduced and/or too fast evaporating thinner/reducer for spray conditions. Air pressure too low during spray application.Force drying of air-dry enamels without the recommended additives. REPAIR If defects are minor; Sand the top surface smooth, allow to cure and refinish. If defects are severe; Remove the affected area and refinish. PREVENTION Avoid excessive film thickness and heavy coats. Always allow for sufficient flash times. Keep newly painted finish away from direct sunlight until finish has dried/cured. Use reducer that is specifically recommended for the topcoat. Use the recommended reducer, additive, and/or retarder when spraying in hot humid weather. Select recommend thinner/reducer based on temperature, humidity, air movement, and size of repair. Use the proper reduction ratio and spray at recommended air pressure. Select the recommended additives to suit drying conditions. Follow force dry temperatures and time recommendations.
I'm thinking the primer was the problem. When you went back to top coat it, the solvent in the topcoat most likely penetrated the primer and made it wrinkle. Did you use an epoxy in between the polyester primer and the base coat?
Is it possible your surface got contaminated? If youre not in a closed booth you have to be extra carefull of outside contaminats .
Alot of good suggestions. There are many variables here. Lostn51- thats definetly a good point about using all the same manufacturer. I'm not actually painting the car but the guy who is was going off the paint shops advice, but using the same brand defintely makes sense to me. Billet- There are defintly runs on the bottom of the body line, but that will be sanded out anyway. The car is pearl white on top, and from the top of the body line down is grey. James427- Yea thats pretty much how it feels. Feels like the clear is dry and hard but I can make a fingernail imprint. I would'nt say the fiberglass is new as we have had the body for several years, but we are the only owners of it. The guy who is painting the car prepped it, and I assume he did it right because he used to do body work or corvettes years ago. I don't have much experince with fiberglass, so I'm not sure about removing all the release agent. Can you expand on how I can make sure of that? The Shocker- Haha not really a trend I'm interested in starting. I do know it's not laquer over enamel. Super plus- looks to me like it's some sort of chemical reaction, not sure that would correct it. Mopar mama- I was thinking not compatible, but the guy is going off paint shop advice. I know that doesnt make it right, I'm thinking we need to stick to all DuPont. James427 (again)- That makes sense to me. I don't really wanna do this paint job twice in that short of a time period. Redlinetoys- That could help, but there are alot of variables in that description that could be our issue. Guess we will have to figure out a way to eliminate as many of those as possible. We aren't shooting in a booth so those are very valid concerns. (I probably should have mentioned that we weren't shooting in a booth) SwitchBlade327- On the fiberglass it was base coat right over the poly primer Hot Rod Bob- Like I mentioned in the responce to Redlinetoys, we are not shooting in a booth. It looks more like an chemical incomatabilitly problem to me though. I dont know I've been wrong before, and I'm not a painter. junk feild- It was a little hot today.
its from piling on heavy coats and or putting in the heat too soon like the sun. that was alot of clear.
I'm thinking that it was caused by putting it in the sun too soon. I don't think it's the primer because the clear on the decklid is fine, and that is fiberglass also. I think the doors were in the sun when he sprayed them while the rest of the parts he sprayed were under the E-Z up.
It doesnt look like cross contamination. More like some orange peel. At least thts the best I can tell from the pics. As many others mentioned, you put in on too wet too quick. The runs underneath the bodyline are all the evidence you need. The excessive thickness caused it to wrinkle and the next coat came in with out the thick coat being allowed time to flash. Knock it down and either recoat if you feel your thin, or buff.
"James427- Yea thats pretty much how it feels. Feels like the clear is dry and hard but I can make a fingernail imprint. I would'nt say the fiberglass is new as we have had the body for several years, but we are the only owners of it. The guy who is painting the car prepped it, and I assume he did it right because he used to do body work or corvettes years ago. I don't have much experince with fiberglass, so I'm not sure about removing all the release agent. Can you expand on how I can make sure of that?" Basically the "release agent" is psrayed into the mold before the parts are laid with fibgerglass. This makes it easy let them come out of the mold. Of course, if there is some still on the parts the paint wojn't stick properly. The way you know if there is some on your parts is the when you take the paint off you will notice that your paint is sitting on TOP of the part instead of stuck too it. If it was your primer, the primer will be stick to the part, but the paint wil not be stuck to the primer. When it is a new part, you just need to assume that the release agent is on there and clean it off real well with solvents and then sand the surface properly and clean it again before primer or paint.
every time this happened to me it was laquer over enamel or visa versa. strip it and be sure to use prepsol or a geneic precleaner solvent.some times you can get away with mist coats, to cheat the problem. but it is definity a compatability problem.
You got a problem where your finish coat has a high power solvent and wrinkled something under it. Laying it on 'wet' will not completely cause this, but sometimes body guys will 'fog' coat if they expect to have troubles such as this.
If you used a polyester based primer you're going to have to spray a urethane based primer or sealer over the polyester primer.I don't think you'll have to strip it all off,but you've got some sanding ahead of you.My guess is the solvents in the paint and clear reactivated the primer.
Looks like a problem a student in one of my autobody classes had. The cause was he sprayed the door jambs and inside of the doors without masking the outside using base/clear and he didn't get the outside edges sanded good leaving a clear coat on the sealer. When the base hit the clear it wrinkled.
The Jalopy Journal
