Anybody running a diesel in their rod?

I know it doesn't fit with a traditional build, but I've been looking at engines from the salvage yards and found a GM Military V8 Diesel.

I'm toying with the idea of putting it in my '49 GMC truck.

Anybody out there running diesel? Problems? Pics?

 

Mines not on the road yet but i will be running diesel in a rod. Its a 1937 International D-15 pickup on a cut down S-10 short bed/x-cab chassis with a Cummins 4Bt and a NV4500 5-speed. Only problems with a Diesel is the price of everything is more then a gasser, size and weight (the 4BT 4 cylinder i'am using weighs 727LBs dry).

 

A military GM diesel probably means its either a 6.2L or a 6.5L. Nothing special. Both are junk IMO and I work on them everyday. (No more 6.2L, we junked all them! ) Reconsider your engine chioce before you start welding.

FWIW, I would never put a diesel in anything other than a work truck.

 

Never heard of such a thing.LOL>>>>.

 

There is a guy in Vista , Ca with a Turbo Cummins in his mid thirties Chevy sedan . I've seen the car on the road but never up close . I was told by a local rod shop that worked on it that it hauls ass .

 

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Despite Slowandlow's comments, it might not be a bad alternative.

Presumably it's a 6.2 in a chevy/gmc 1 ton truck.... Probably the best starting place for a diesel based hot rod.

It uses the same motor mounts and tranny bolt pattern as the sbc/bbc. So if you go with this and later change your mind, it's as simple as a bolt in to swap to a traditional 350 chevy.

The military version uses a 24 volt electrical system. To use it in a civilian vehicle, you will need to purchase all new 12v sensors and acessories. Including the fuel shut off solenoid in the IP [injection pump]

Cons:
*The 6.2 is consideder to be the weakest [stock] diesel on the market. It only makes about 150 hp / 275 ft/lbs.
*It redlines at 3600 rpm
*The Stynadine DB-2 injection pump is VERY frqagile.
*The castings are thin, and if you "crank up the power", you can split a block.

Pros:
*The 6.2 is the lightest domestic V8 diesel [7-800 lbs.]
*The 6.2 is the simplest diesel design out there, and if you can wrench a SBC, you can wrench one of these.
*The 6.2 is the LEAST expensive diesel to buy parts for and maintain... By far!!!
*The complete turbo setup from a 6.5 diesel will bolt on with no mods needed.
*The 6.2 can safely be cranked up to 275-300 hp/475-500 tq.
*Diesels are MUCH easier to tune and hot rod once you understand the basics
*A diesel engine will run for 500k miles between rebuilds
*The 6.2 is known for being the MOST fuel efficent diesel on the market [domestic truck], and will return about 20-25 mpg in stock form in a full size truck!!! You might be able to squeeze 35-40 out of a light weight rod.

And the best parts of all...
#1, A diesel can be made to run on alternate fuels, such as used cooking oil, bio-diesel, used motor oil, etc.
#2, No matter how much you hot-rod a diesel, it will always return respectable MPG numbers if you keep your foot out of it [unlike a huge cam in a gas burner].

I'm a HUGE diesel fan, so I might be a little biased, but I believe a diesel in a hobby-rod "weekender" would be an excellent choice. Diesels dress up just as well as a gas-burner... You can paint and chrome the parts just the same as a sbc.

It will never beat a comperable gas burner in a drag race, but it could be made capable of running quite quick... Plus it would be 10 times more reliable and return 3 or 4 times the MPG.

 

I've a two litre turbo diesel (perkins prima) and five speed box fitted in a '51 Chevy AD truck, It may not be traditional but with sky high UK fuel prices it makes sense with 30 + mpg. Not a tremendous amount of power but, affordable to use. There are several other trucks here in the UK fitted with similar power plants, sorry about the lack of pictures i'm having problems with my digital camera.

 

Thanks for the replies guys!

I looked for a similar thread, I guess I just didn't look back far enough

Its just a thought at the moment, but the possibility of good MPG + running on vegi-oil are all pluses.

I also like the idea of doing something a little bit different. So keep those replies coming, I haven't made up my mind but Pir8Darryl makes some good points.

Thanks,

Sneeky Pete

 

I'm not going to argue with you there. Your pros and cons are dead on. However you did miss one, a 6.2L is alomost completely mechanical. There is no computer needed for it to run in your rod. Early 6.5's are mechanical as well and they are very very similar to the 6.2L. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, they also carry the SBC bolt pattern and mounts. They make way more power and are a little bit better in my book. Not a horrible chioce starting from scratch.

All things being equal, I'd rather have an early turbo powerstroke. But hey, everyone's different, I drive a Duramax everday!

 

Maybe you can give me advice then. I have a 51 1/2 ton merc pickup which I've been concidering swapping out the flathead. I'm not interested in big, loud, or fast. I want reliable, good mileage, and low maintenance. As far as I am concerned the stock engine is 100hp as long as I can achieve the same performance characteristics I'll be fine, better performance is only icing on the cake. Not knowing anything about different diesel engines I'd love input on what might be a good one to use. The quieter the better, as the only thing negative about the diesel is the clackity clack sound doesn't really fit in a classic. A classic deserves a nice quiet engine, hard to do in a diesel I know. The less electronics on it the better too, I'm not afraid of it, but I've got a friend with a landcruiser, completely mechanical 100% even the fuel injection, and nothing breaks on it.

 

Hey, thanks man!
I saw you posted a reply, and thought we were going to end up in a pissing contest. I'm glad we agree on this one.

The 6.2 and 6.5 are identical. Just larger pistons in the '5. Yes, standard SBC patterns all the way around. Actually, the later 6.5 has thicker bore castings for increased strength, but you *can* bore a 6.2 to a 6.5 if you have the bores sonic tested to detirmine the centerline.

The 6.2 got a bad rep early because it was GM's entry into the domestic diesel market, following close on the heels of the Oldsmobile 350 diesel. The square fuel filter [on the firewall] was a nightmare that sucked in air, the DB-2 was fragile and would die instantly if any water got in it, and it only made the same HP/TQ as a 305 sbc. A few years later they beefed up the design, re-vamped the troublesome filter, added a water trap to keep H2O out of the IP, and turbocharged it, and the 6.5 was born... Basically, they fixed the problems, and suddenly everyone loved it! But it's still the same basic engine. LOL

If you come across a decent running 6.2, just swap out the filter for one with a water trap, and buy a 6.5 turbo setup off e-gay and bolt it on... Problems solved!

The CR in a 6.2 is 21:1, and 19.6:1 for the 6.5 with turbo.

You can "crank up" the IP with an allen wrench and 10 minutes of work for more HP.

Mechanical diesels are where it's at!!! Computers belong on a desk-top. NOT under my hood!

While the PSD and Cummins are capable of cranking out some CRAZY hp/tq numbers, @ 1200 lbs for the PSD, and 1400 for the 6BT, they are not hot-rod friendly... Unless you REALLY enjoy oversteer and traction issues

 

I haven't done anything yet but I am seriously considering putting a
VW Jetta TDI in my model A. They make 160 hp stock and can be reprogrammed to quite a bit more.
They get 50 mpg which is a big plus for me.
I have had 2 Jetta's as daily drivers and have had no problems with the engines.

 

A pre 94 Ford (Navistar-International) diesel is all mechanical too. I've got one in my Ford Pickup and always though if one had an old International pickup a Navistar would be a cool motor. I have never had any trouble out of mine and with a Banks Turbo it makes power out the gazooooo.. Seems though no matter what Navistar and GM do Cummin's just tweeks their little old 5.9 and makes more power. No tellin' what they'll eventually wind up with with the 6.7 or what ever it is .. Only thing is it sounds funny and a Navistar V8 just sounds so cool ..

 

In staying with the theme, diesel's......and this goes way off topic...sorry, but it's my opinion...take it or leave it.

There are so many VW diesel's out there, and the TDI's that can be had for next to nothing. I have a buddy that has a 42 chevy truck with a TDI in it.........i have wrenched on it when we were working out the kinks for the all wheel drive. It gets better mileage than the freakin' vw is suppose too! No shit. He tow's his boat, and even a 20' car hauler with his ralley car on it, all with no problems. He is a freak himself. And does this stuff for fun, and to see if it can be done. Even though I bcould build one, I've tried my damn'dest to buy it from him, and he won't sell. He did tell me he bought the whole car from the junkyard for $1350 and they delivered it to his house. He stripped what he wanted and needed to make his truck work, and then called them to get the rest. They paid him $500 for what was left. That $850 for the motor, tranny, front AWD diff., the computer, wiring harness, and the fuse block.
This is something to think about, even if it is a VW.

Also, Isuzu make's a kick ass diesel too! You can pick them up in the junkyards with the tranny for less than $500.

 

There are only 2 real choices for this conversion.

#1, The GM 6.2/6.5 V8 diesel
#2, the mercedes benz passenger car diesel

The Mercedes diesel would be a complete custom setup. There are adaptor plates to bolt a GM T-400 tranny behind one, but everything else would be cut/chop/weld to make it work.

I'd be willing to bet there's already a setup out there to put a SBC into your P/U, and since the 6.2/6.5 uses the SBC bolts, that's probably your best bet.

I'v seen complete military surpluss 6.2 on e-gay with a BIN of $500. They usually go for about $750-900, but deals are out there.

What you need to know about a diesel is that they make 100% of their torque right off idle, so even a mild diesel that only makes ~150 hp is capable of eating rear-ends and tranny's with ease... So make sure your rear-end is up to the task!!!

Also, the 6.2 is actually very quiet. Find a p/u that has one and listen to it. 99% of the time, you cant even tell it's a diesel. The Cummins and Power-stroke are the noise makers [especially when red-neck cowboys run them with no muffler and monster pipes]

 

Nope, I piss in the toilet... usually, cept on the wknds, and at truck stops.

I just had this coversation with a friend who was set on a 6.2L. After I told him about a 6.5 and it being mostly equal, he changed his mind. Fact of it is, I have/work on such a wide variety at work, I can't help but put them at the bottom of the barrell. We have/had 6.2L, 6.5L, early 8.1L PWS, early 7.3 non turbo, 7.3 turbo, 7.3 turbo intercooled, 6.0, Cat, Cummins, Mack, Duramax, and I'm still missing a few. The just scream SBC conversion and that proves un-reliability. Even the PWS and Duramax are gas based conversions and they have problems rearing their ugly heads all the time.

I'd rather see a different chioce, but like we said before, a 6.2/6.5 is the best starting point.

 

This clearly won't be an easy choice.

Lazy me says: Go w/ SMB 350!
Adventurous me says: Diesel!

I obviously have to do my home work.

I'm planning on driving this thing a lot. Possibly on the daily, so reliability is key.

 

the owner of this car lives in AK by memphis his son has a 32 vicky with an isuzu diesel in it and they are always parked together and they have went to the louisville and the OKC NSRA shows the past 2 years plus several others in their area. He says he gets passed on the highway but passes em all while they sit in the gas station but that yellow was just wrecked last week and destroyed all the front sheetmetal so you might not see it around for awhile

 

no shit!!!!>>>>.

 

VW?
Diesel?
Isuzu?
WTF?
Am I on the HAMB or not....?

 

So many people jump up and yell when anyone says something they don't agree with. I got news for ya..........if you don't like the first sentence, don't read the rest and move on. It was my opinion, whether it's on the hamb, or my my f'ing backyard. The guy I was speaking of, Yost, is a genius. And he has a very nice selection of old cars, 11 to be exact. He would never join the hamb, I've showed him the site, he says he has no time for the petty bickering. I'm so f'ing close to being the same way.

I said what I said, to open up the conversation to other maker's of diesel's. I don't want to waste anybody's time, as time is very precious. So if you didn't like the first sentence, move the fuck on.....................

 

Anybody else wanna comment on this before we let it slip into oblivion?

 

6.2 isn't a bad motor, just not a powerhouse. Odds are after 500K you'll need a new block, though. They can be rough on transmissions, and the auto trans behind one needs to be built for a diesel. I bought a good solid '85 Suburban 6.2 for less than $200 at an auction - with a bad transmission. On the bright side, I later found an '86 Suburban for $300 that had thrown a rod or something (scrapped the motor without looking but it would only turn part way and stop) that had a rebuilt transmission - I actually made $150 on it after stripping it.

A 6.2 has been described as like a 305, power-wise, but it has more torque. Gear the thing so your highway speed runs about 1800 RPM and you should be able to get 30 MPG - people have claimed close to that in 1/2 ton Suburbans and pickups that have the aerodynamics of a brick.

They have their fans and their detractors. I personally think the 5.9 Cummins is a better motor that will deliver the same economy with more power - but it will also cost more up front. The 6.2 isn't a bad way to get your feet wet.

 

Still O/T but where? I've been looking for this type of thing. Closet diesel lover...

 

I have an old -31 chevy whit model A front axle and a olds 5,7 diesel but i have trown away the old airchamber and mounted 8 cromed pipes instead roars pretty good thogether whit the 8 exhausts. Dont have no body yet but figurin to by a -29 plastic roadster to start whit.has a monster Z in the bak so it will eat som asfalt.

 

Here 'ya go!

http://www.4x4labs.com/dieselconversions.shtml

 

hey, purely out of intrest is there an easy diesel conversion to go into a 65 willys pickup? mine has the 230 OHC kaiser motor and a T-90.

 

I am part of the NON 6.2 crowd. Had too many issues.
As for the 6.5, I'm still in the same boat (as in a boat anchor) although I have seen some NASTY 300HP on the street that have given some of our Fords and Dodge's a real run for the money!
Straight piped Powerstrokes and Cummins are loud=direct injection and design. So was the NON turbo, dual straight piped 6.2's, 6.9's and 7.3's.

They are an acquired taste and will lower the resale value of your rod.
I do believe that a small diesel with an auto is EXTREMELY cost effective when it comes to fuel. The older VW diesel trucks would get 50mpg. Nothing that was going to light the salt flats on fire but cost effective.
Kubotas and Isuzu's are also good weight/power.
I would rather build up a WICKED 4BT for myself. NO excuse why they can't make an 1800 rolling car haul butt when they can push around 10tons all day long.

We should also remember that just because a Diesel has HIGH HP doesn't necessarily mean it gets bad fuel mileage.

Mike
Bonified DEEZUL nut.

 

not true military vehicles with 6.2l were m1009 and m1008s blazers and pickups, they ran a 12/24v system not a true 24v system very easy to convert to a 12 volt, pm me for detaisl ive done it i have a military blazer