Somebody please kick start my brain. I know toe should 3/16" to 1/4", but I can't remember, toe in, or toe out? Oh, this is standard hot rod style front end, tube axle, etc., etc.
On a rear wheel drive application, you want it to be 'toed in' so that when you are driving, the friction between the tires and the road causes the tires to toe out slightly, typically moving the setting to "0" On a front wheel drive, you want the tires to be 'toed out' about 1/4" to 3/16" as when you are on the throttle in gear, the wheels 'pull' themselves forward, thereby moving the toed out condition to "0" At least that was how it was explained to me and how I was taught.
Toe Out, just to be different ;-) Nah toe in it is! What are you using to measure?!? I used chalk and a broomhandle last time, but I got a nice longacre racing toe in alignment tool cheap on ebay since then, can't wait to use it.
Alsways toe in.. I set em' at an 1/8... up to a 1/4 is fine. Too much toe in will make the car "dart" and create twitchy steering. Toe out will make it wonder and have sluggish steering, and cause tires to Scwall when turning..
Hey when I went to Fontana with a photog friend of mine that's how they were setting up one of the indycars I saw in the pits...if it's good enough for them... I'd do that too if I could just make sense of it!!
It's easier to do than it is to explain. You need to run string down each side of the car right about at the center of the wheels. Move the front jackstand around until the string is just touching the both sidewalls on the rear tires. If you do this carefully and correctly, both strings will be exactly parallel with each other. Now turn the front wheels so that both side walls of one front tire are the exact same distance from the string. It doesn't matter which side you do, just make sure you measure from the same spot on both sides of the wheel. Now that front wheel is straight and square with the rear. Now go around and measure from the other front tire to the string on that side, both in front of and behind the wheel again. The difference in those two measurements is the toe. Make whatever adjustments are necessary.
sorry its much easier to measure the distance in front of the wheel --- from tread to tread of tires ---- and in back and make your adjustments, done it this way for years and have never worn a tire out except for normal driving, no toe or camber wear
That's okay. I just went out and measured it your way and got the same 3/16" difference. It's just seems easier for me to measure from the fattest part of the sidewall. I think as long as you're consistant and measure from the same spot all the time, it will be close enough.
Hot rod Dave Your string method only works if the rear end is square to the front end. The problem with this method is that the rear end or front end can be out of square and all you do is set a dog track. 2002p51 No way should you run more than 1/8" in or out. You other guys , well, I don't recall ever seeing front end alignment being explained like that.
be careful incase you have a bent rim but i havnt had problems and if i do i have access to a alignment rack 24/7 to check out anyways
Either works.......race car guys use toe out. As the speed increases, the wheels go towards neutral, but if there isn't enough toe in or toe out and they go to 100% neutral, that's when there is no load (side pressure), and you get shimmy.
Totally correct on race cars...it allows them to "set" easier when turning. I still use toe out on most of my hot rod stuff...1/16 or even 1/8. Maybe its in my head, but I feel they handle better than toe in...no darting, etc as posted on this thread. Maybe I will go with camel toe...
You put your toe, you put your toe out.........wait a second. That's a song. I vote for toe in. Really diggin the camel toe.
Indeed. The static toe-out helps the ackerman (which is just dynamic toe-out) set the car into the corner. It works just as well on the street, and is quite a bit more forgiving (IE less toe-out will keep the car stable than the same amount of toe in, and more toe-out will not lead to darting and bind on turn-in like too much toe-in will). I'd shoot for about 1/16" to 1/8" of toe-out and call it good. Not enough to wear the tires funky, but plenty to keep it from hunting. We used to line our race cars up with zero toe on tracks with long straights and sweeping turns to reduce the scrub loss you get from static toe out. The difference between the feel of a car with zero toe and one with just 1/16" of toe-out is like night and day. Where the track configuration allowed speeds to stay up (talking dirt tracks here, BTW) zero toe was faster though, so I dealt with the hunting down the straights (it's not like I would have ran down them in a perfectly straight line anyway ). Once in the corner, the ackerman and strategic bump steer kicks in and toes the front wheels out, lending stability when you need it. However, on tight tracks with short straights, we'd run upwards of 3/16"-1/4" of static toe-out to help with turn-in, 'cause the scrub loss down the straights was minimal compared to the benefits gained during turn-in and through the center of the corner. Also, I've got to say, that if your car has enough slack in all the steering linkages and kingpin pivots to absorb 1/16"-1/8" of toe, you've got bigger things to worry about besides front end alignment.
Hello all, I am new to this forum and just wanted to put my two cents in for those who are like me just learning about straight axle steering/suspension dynamics. I joined the forum because I was having major death wobble issues and was looking for advice. A little background. I have a 1930 model A coupe that was custom built in 2013. It uses a bell 48” straight axle kit from speedway with ford style spindles and and disk brake kit also from speedway. Utilizing leaf spring, and fords version of the houdaille shock for suspension. The car is a great cruiser. Several 1 to 1 1/2 hour drives with not as much as a shimmy in the front end over bumps. About a month ago I found that my spring perch bolt was sheared and needed replacing. I decided to take the entire front suspension off and repaint parts while I was there. I replaced the newly painted front end and took the car for a test drive. Upon reaching approx. 40mph and hitting a bump in the road, I experienced my first death wobble. Don’t wish it on anyone!! Definitely a “pucker factor” moment. Got the car home and started trying to figure it out. Troubleshooting was extensive and involved doing multiple searches online for death wobble remedies. There are several trains of thought on the subject, but one consistency throughout my search was that almost everyone recommend checking alignment. “More toe in” if there is wobble seemed to be the consensus. So after starting around 1/8” in, I began giving it more toe in until I reached nearly 3/8 before realizing it was getting a lot worse. Because I am a rookie mechanic, I figured it was something I put back together wrong and decided to tear down again and put back with more of a “pay attention to detail” attitude. And after the second re-build and a 1/8” toe in I started out on my test drive. Same results. After more research, I came across some info detailing tire wear for various alignment problems. Came to realize my tire wear was consistent with toe out wear. Sure enough…it is currently sitting at 1/4” toe out and driving just like it did before the repair. So…I just wanted to let others know that it seems each car is different and have different happy spots. More toe in(or toe in period) is not always the answer. Believe in my case it’s because my caster is severe…10*…is why toe out is better…any thoughts?
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