Seems like I've had more than a few interesting things happen over the last buncha years pertaining to Holley electric fuel pumps. All red pumps so far, but I have a new blue pump waiting in the wings. I have three of them hanging over the workbench. Two were slated for mockup on the 31 on 32 rails roadster and I added the third one yesterday. And right now, I don't want to install a manual pump. I see that Holley has some rebuild stuff for the pump end of things and also has a replacement brush kit. Has anyone torn down a Holley pump and if so, what did you find? I'm guessing the motors in mine are whats gone so I don't see any rebuilding going on there. Guessing too that the pumps are living in a somewhat hot area and even with heat shields the pumps are heat soaking in slow traffic and at stops. I know, the pump in the pic is bypassed, but it's in service now. Bout to the point where I'm gonna make my own cotton-pickin' pump. Design thoughts are a couple. A gerotor pump and a DC motor big enough to drive it. Or, a gerotor pump driven by a small Gilmer belt up front. I have room for that in both the 32 and 31 roadsters. I'm liking the DC motor with gerotor pump and part of the thinking is, the DC motor will be in the trunk where it's cooler than the underbody area and the pump will be under the floor. The whole rig would be on an aluminum plate and the trunk floor would be cut out enough for the install and the aluminum plate would cover the hole as well as support pump and motor. Placing a Holley style pump in the trunk as some do strikes me as potentially dangerous and not something I would do. The pics above show the heat shield setup and they seem reasonably sufficient. I did start out to build an air scoop setup that steered cool air to the pump, but screwed up the angle when the aluminum piece was bent on a brake. At speed, the pumps do ok so maybe part of the answer for the Holley pumps is move them to an even cooler place. Todays little experiment will be installing a permanent voltmeter (SW) and seeing how the voltage at the pump reads. The pump setup does have a relay and when everything is cooled down, voltage at the battery reads 12.4V and voltage at the pump reads 12.4. Driving home with zero fuel pressure part of the time is . . . interesting. Pretty sure the gauge et al is ok and I have two more fuel pressure gauges under the hood and they all read about the same at idle. I've had a few guys who like very simple gauge panels ask me why so many gauges. First up, I like gauges. Second, when the car acts up - which ain't often - you can do a lot of diagnosing while you drive. Along these same lines you can see impending failures and be able to take care of them at home instead of out on the highway. A few weeks back we were about 80 miles out of town and I could see the manual fuel pump putting out less pressure than it had been along with watching pressure go almost to zero when the throttle was on hard when we got back onto a busy highway. I do not depend on horsepower to zip me out of problems and drive conservatively, but there are times when you have to nail it. So, a little history, some experience and the main question is what have you found in failed Holley pumps?
I had an old red one I took off a truck I junked out a few years back. It hadn't ran for at least 6 years and when I tried it I got nothing, not a spark, hum-nothing. I tapped it lightly with a screwdiver handle and it took off and ran like a whiz and I used it to suck gas out of cars all day.
My camaro sat for a year or so with fuel in the pump and hadnt been run, when I got it fired up the pump worked good then stopped and got really hot, and quit i went under the car tapped on it with a screw driver and it started pumping again I took the bottom plate off and the gasket and cleaned it up and it worked fine .I owned a bunch of blue pumps about six or seven on various cars when theyre new they work fine ,mine couldnt supply a steady 7psi to my carb,under load ,8an line from sumped tank to regulator went to a BG pump no problems since.
the Carter pump is better,or at least more durable. Holley makes millions selling stuff that's only suitable for use 1/4 mile at a time. if you intend to actually drive your car farther than that get something else. my neighbor Floyd has boxes full of old Holley pumps that up and quit on him,i've got the same Carter pump that came on my car when i bought it.
Dunno about the carter pumps. At least the gearotor design. Have had major issues with those little bastards here of late. Seems as though they do NOT like ethanol. I've taken to adding some 2cycle oil to the fuel whan i gas up...and so far no worries. But i'm still looking for an alternative. So yorg...what kind of carter pumps are you using?
None of the popular pumps on the market today can tolerate high concentrations of ethanol. It may be slow death but they all will die. I doubt that adding oil is really helping.
holley pumps are garbage. Advanced auto pumps are garbage. Factory GM pumps are garbage. Carter mechanical pumps are the best thing in the world.
I used to use Red pumps for my roundy round racing Ive seen all kinds of failures with them the strangest was the magnets coming loose inside the motor housing though. I had better luck with Autozone generic pumps than Holley
I have a carter electric street pump installed in 89. Still buzzing, never had to even tap it back to life. Never known a holley pump in my buddies cars to last more than a couple years. Oh yeah, been running ethanol blend since it was introduced in the early 90s cause I'm a corn boy and all. IMO mechanical is the way to go if it'll support the motor and fit the chassis, quieter and more durable. Back to the original topic, when I've been around friend's pumps we believed they'd jam once for dirt, then become real prone to stopping. More you tap em back to life, more they need it. Rebuilds don't seem to last as long as new. F-ing ripoff to sell such an unchanged & trouble prone unit when the R&D was amortized in 1986.
Only fuel pump I've ever used that was worth a shit was the old SW 240A 12. It only pumps when it needs to, unlike the holley and other rotational designs that are pumping at 100% full time and bypassing the rest to the inlet side. But the 240A 12 isn't big enough for a drag car unless you use about 3 of them. And at the going rate of 200 each for a used one, its not a good solution. Like everyone else I've got a pile of holley red and blue pumps that quit. They don't like dirt and the smallest chunk will jam the rotor. Cooked wiring got a few of them, I'm thinking after they jammed. The belt driven gerotor pump is used often in carburated alcohol drag motors, basically a mechanical injector pump with a bypass regulator set around 5-7psi. Keep in mind that the further the pump is from the tank the bigger the tank to pump line must be in order to maintain the volume. Mopar V twin AC compressors have a cute little gerotor oil pump in the back, accessable by pulling off the square plate at the rear. With a housing and seal and matched with a continuous duty 12vdc motor I think you'd have a top notch fuel pump to use with an external bypass regulator. Might be a lot of work.... but i enhoy those small projects.
I've had the same Holley red pump on my truck for at least 10 years now. I've replaced the rotor kit once in that time. It sat for 16 months after a wreck and it still runs today. I do have one of the big Fram fuel filters in between it and the tank and I do run 12 gauge wire to it to and from the relay. jerry
Anything with AC to about 1985 or so. As far as I know mopar used them from the first car they built with AC (mid 50s?) until they started using sanden or nippensedo or whatever. They have a very distinctive look that you wont confuse for the late model.... http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/34597_mopar_ac_system_restore_iii/photo_20.html
it kind of looks like this one; http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CRT-P4389&N=700+115&autoview=sku i'm not sure of the exact model/part # but since it keeps working i've never had to have a close look at the thing...
Having read about all the hassles with various fuel pumps that are on the market I opted to use an aircraft fuel pump. Hey if it's got to fly people around it's got to be a top quality item ,right? Mine is a 12 volt unit(Facet) out of a CT-134 Musketeer (Beechcraft).Puts out 6-8 psi,built in filter,regulated down to 2.5 psi for the flatty;works like a damn. I think using the aircraft pump is the way to go;the price might be more but in the long run... I got mine while in the Airforce tho'. JMO.
Now you've got me paranoid, since I've had only one problem out of my Holley red for over 10 years, a leak out of the vent(?) hole. Talked to one of the Holley engineer guys and a kit fixed it. Probably will fail on the next run. Thanks!
C9, If you want to do something really out of the box call Sid Waterman and ask him about his cable driven pump. Many NASCAR, sprint and midget teams use them.
Have any of you looked at our redesigned flow-through style pumps? We have changed them to incorporate the twin spur design used in our belt driven fuel pumps and coupled that up with an electric motor. This pump when used in conjunction with one of our heat sinks has greatly reduced fuel temperatures and is reasonably quiet for an electric pump.
I did a bit of digging and found the belt driven model. Nice design, interesting bypass pill feature. Apparently Summit doesn't handle BG stuff? How do the BG electric pumps handle a high heat environment? Funny part about all this Holley failure stuff is, I ran a Holley Red pump for several years with no problems other than a hung-up internal regulator. Only difference was, the mufflers were glass packed Turbo Muffs about the same size as the two-chamber FlowMasters I'm running now. I see several outfits selling generic pumps that look very much like a plain aluminum version of the Holley pumps. Since I'm only running about 400 HP, the double BG pump may be a bit of overkill for my roadster. I do want to stick with electric, but am a touch leery about spending any more money on Holley pumps. Does BG make a street type pump sans external regulator that takes a #8 line? If not, maybe you ought to. Priced competitively it ought to sell a bunch. Especially to the ex-Holley pump owners....
We do offer a couple of different pumps for street use but both versions will require some sort of regulation. Our HR220 pump can use -8an forward on an application like yours but will require a -10an feed and return line. The other pump which we mentioned earlier would be our Mighty Enduro but it would need to be fed with a -10an as well with the -8an liine forward but does not have to be used with a return line when used in conjunction with a heat sink. When it is plumbed in this manner it will require a regulator however. Both of these pumps mentioned are electric. In regards to Summit, Barry chose to close their account a few years ago but we do have 400+ dealers all over the country. Lastly in regards to the heat issues.... heating of the fuel itself is typically worse than the components. When lines are ran alongside of exhaust or close to headers in engine compartments the fuel can vapor lock or even percolate. Temperatures under our cars are also pretty high but one part we have came out with recently has helped to reduce fuel temperatures by up to 90 degrees. That part would be the heat sink mentioned earlier.
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