Two identical cars into one...advice requested

First, I'm not asking for you to tell me what to do, just to solicit opinions on a tough situation I just found yesterday.

I am working on a car and just finished redoing the floors, ready to put it back together. However, I didn't like panel alignment and there was some cracking at the top of the A pillar. I started digging and ACCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKK...the majority of the roof/windshield is eaten up by rust. The PO (really the POS) had glassed and bondoed the entire ridge.






Here's my problem. I bought an identical car (exact even to color) as a parts car a couple of weeks ago for some rare trim and motor parts.

Parts car needs engine rebuilt but tranny recently rebuilt. Other than that, it's a complete car but has significant rust in trunk and entire section between rear window and trunk is eaten up along with some rust in quarters. Frame has rust at crossmember and was welded up in another spot.



Both cars are titled.

My problem is which way forward. I can make a good full car out the two, but which forms the base?

Do you think it's feasible to cut out the windshield/roof section from the parts car and replace it on the original? This is a no post car so support would obviously be needed, but that's no problem. I'm a bit concerned about the bad panel alignment on the original as if there might be a frame issue I haven't found. Example, passenger door to fender has 1" gap at top, about 1/4" at bottom though trim lines up front and rear.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

Sounds like you're already practiced at replacing floors. Good decisions aren't easy.

Poke this next one with a screw driver. Everywhere. Understand what it is before you waste more labor and eventually move on to a third chassis. You may laugh but I've seen it done. good luck

 

At this point it's time to go over both with a fine-toothed comb and figure out which one needs less work to put together. Some cars seem to all rot in the same places, and some it depends how they were kept and where they lived. For instance, I see a lot of 49-52 Chevys with rot in the left A-post, but my own Fleetline seems to be good there where even the parts car I have, another '50 Fleetline, has rot.

So it's possible you'll get into the second one and find it not much better than the first one. With that panel alignment issue, it may be worth putting it on a wheel alignment rack and checking that over, too, although saggy doors can be bad hinge pins or can be lower cowl issues.

 

Thanks. Do you guys think it's possible for an average welder/fabricator to cut out the windshield portion of the parts car and put it in the original??

 

Remove the glass, cut out the rust, fab up some patch panels and start welding.

 

I did that almost exact job on an old Volvo 240 once. It was the car that I learned to weld on, so ya you can do it. Its alot of work, but it can be done with alot of patience. I wouldn't do anything though before I found out which car had the straighter frame.

BTW what kind of car is it?

 

Mustang??

 

That's just what you found. I will bet it's even worse. That sell looks wasted- but worse has been fixed. You need to strip it all down and see what you are working with.

 

I agree that a full strip needs to be done to really see the extent of the damage.

I just did similar window repairs to my Dad's '69 Road Runner. I put in full trunkpans and a partial floorpan, outer wheelhouses, full rear quarters, a rear frame crossmember, plus a bunch of other framerail repairs and the rear torqueboxes for the front torsion bars. But the rest of the body looked good and I didn't want to take the rear window out.

Sure enough, the guy who's going to paint the car decides the rear window has to come out and there's some big holes hiding under the glass. I just made the pieces to repair it and welded them in, I don't know if it's worth the effort to cut them out of the other car. But you're going to have to do something.

What really scares me is your sagging doors. An inch gap is HUGE, you really need to find out if it's a hinge problem, an alignment problem, or if the pillar/firewall is sagging. You might have a whole heap of welding time ahead of you.

 

Make a list for each car of all the things that it would take to make it decent. make sure the other car has the necessary parts, consider the difficulty of the tasks required, and pick the easier route. From what you've found already, the parts car sounds like the choice for the base

 

looks like a 70-72 monte or chevelle, repair the area around the back window with the available patch panels, make the rest that you cant buy, then cut the roof of and put another on.

jeff

 

Nope - those are not GM rain gutters. I'm still guessing Ford (Mustang? Maverick?) or AMC. Whatever it is, I've never owned one. 1970s?

 

i would examine both cars very carefully and pick the one that is most solid and get it in shape.

 

I also vote to grind more and see what you have, on both cars. Go with the more solid of the two. Transfering engines and drivetrain is a lot less time consuming and work than all the welding and fab work you are facing.

If the doors are sagging and you have that much rot in the pillars I will bet your hinge mounting bosses in the cowl are rotted as well. Just a guess.

Good luck, It may be time to look for a third body. You may have two parts cars.

GV

 

Is it rare or expensive?? How much money have you sunk into it?? That thing really looks wasted...seems to me repairs of that level are going to require cutting up a better one for panels! Description of both cars sounds near terminal.
Think through what you have and whether fixing it is worth doing. Mybe your real assets in this are the titles and VIN plates and the small parts and mechanicals...a better host vehicle for those or even a stripped hulk without severe rustout might very well cost less than replacing major body segments that are not in the normal patch-panel areas. What is the car?? It needs to be something pretty scarce to make that level of rot worth fixing.

 

The screen surround looks like what my mate found when he started 'freshening-up' his '67 Firebird - in fact the rear looks '67 Camaro / Firebird to me as well, in which case you can get just about any panel you need to repair them. If you are doing the work to learn, then have a go. If this is a paying job then it is going to be expensive!

 

mine and my sons experience with this kind of thing working with his Chevelles, Monte Carlos and Novas from the 70s is that cars like that here in Ct. had padded tops at some time and a previous owner peeled it off and mudded up the Swiss cheese tin underneath !For me personally I've found it easier to cut the full top off and replace it at the window posts than try and do a large amount of patching and finish work on a roof and not need tons of Fillers after.I try to cut the tops at factory seams there is very little finish work this way compared to multiple patching around the windows replacing the whole top sounds like a huge job at first but is less in the long run than lots of patches just be sure to access the inner layers of the posts and weld them also this can usually be done from inside and hidden by the interior molding.

 

What kind of car is it?!? This is driving me crazy, because I can normally figure it out from just tiny shots like that. This one I can't place. Those wide painted drip rails just don't ring a bell at all, but I'm still betting it has got to be something from the 1970s or even early 1980s. It's not a Mustang II, is it? Nova? Come on, fess up!

 

I was thinking Mustang, or Maverick?????

 

To ease the frustration of those guessing make and model, they are 72 Cutlass supremes. I didn't want to mention that because it's an OT car. However, I find the best fabricators and builders here to bounce ideas/theories off of and the work done here taking rust buckets into great cars is inspirational at least.

I've started stripping the original to see how far the rust goes. I've checked mounting bosses, hinges seem fine and work excellently but I'll dig deeper. I'm curious, could no floor pan for years cause sagging? Haven't seen it but it's a possibility.

I've got less that $2500 in both car combined so there's some room for progress. The parts car I bought because it had original exhaust manifolds and good trim. If you've priced and or tried to find original Olds 350 exhaust manifolds, you know they are super rare (I've never seen a pair for sale in 1.5 years of looking).

Anyway, if salvageable, it looks like the consensus and easiest is to replace the whole roof, cut at the pillars on the original car and scrap the parts car after scavaging useful stuff.

As always, thanks greatly.

 

The roof is the only good thing on my friends 69' Supreme.

No floors in those cars, coupled with bad rust in the bottom of the firewall at the rockers can make the entire firewall bow out because there is no mounts between the seat crossmember and the body mounts forward of the firewall.

Its fixable, but not fun. If thats the problem, start with the other car since the entire body will not be square anymore.

I am surprised they are that rusted in texas. The 69' I am helping with is a Ontario canada car its entire life (1 family has owned it) and its in better shape.

 

On the sagging...these GM A types all had massive front and rear frame structures connected by incredibly flimsy pieces of bedrail, so I think the body itself is the main central structure.
I'm amazed that you're in Texas...I would have guessed Detroit or Ontario or so from the state of that sheetmetal!

 

Two typing "Ontario" as one...

 

Ontario, michigan, and NYS. The Axis of rust.

 

This era almost always has rust in the passenger floor due to clogged heater core drain. I'd guess the driver floor rust was from the roof holes, but that's just a guess. Being Texas cars, I'm very surprised at the roof/pillar rust also. The parts car just wasn't taken care of, so the usual areas rusted, even here in Texas.

 

My guess would be that the rust came from moisture trapped underneath a vinyl top.
If thats the case I would say it wouldnt matter where the car came from.

 

I agree, this car must have had vinyl on it at one time.

I would first pull the headliner and glass to see what the inner structure looks like. I think there is a good chance that most of the inner structure is OK. If so, you can start at the leaded seam at the top of the A pillar and drill the spot welds on the windshield lip with a spot weld bit and it should be pretty easy to use as much of the donor top as you need to patch it.

 

There's no headliner and the inner structure is great. Lid has the original paint and no surface rust even. That's why the rust is so surprising.

 

seems like the up north gm a bodys rust down low, and the southern bodies have rust up top, i got a rust free arizona body for my 71 sprint (el camino) and it has rust above the w/s trim just like yours (well a little less) and it never had a vinyl top on it. but then my MN rust body has a mint roof, well you get the idea of what im gonna do, switch the roof over.

JEFF

 

'72 Cutlass?? With that wide drip rail? Huh. Totally tricked me. At least you're not going to all this trouble for a Maverick.