Tell tale signs to avoid a project car?

This is gonna hugely vary based on restoration competency, budget and all, but I just wanted to get a feel from you veterans out there. I've never done a project myself, just watched from the sidelines and am interested in getting into one.

Like the title says. What are some things that you look for in a project that immediately raise a red flag and make you walk away? I'm thinking of light custom work, mostly restoration on a 50's Buick or Cadillac 2dr fastback. Or a late 30's Buick/Caddy. Weekend wrencher that can do light projects and has to outsource any of the work requiring specialized equipment (no welder, paint booth, etc).

How hard is it to find mascots, missing trim, door panels, instrumentation etc? Work would be done in Boston area.

I've mostly heard rusted out floors/panels, but it seems a lot of folks aren't really deterred by that based on the many threads I've sifted through. How expensive is it to swap out rusted out floors? Seems some of you can give pretty good estimates based on other threads I've read.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

Fresh primer.

JH

 

throw on some shiny wheels and its as good as sold....

another thing to watch.....nice new shiny chrome valve covers and air cleaner on a crusty motor....or fresh orange paint on the small block with shiny accessories...(and the overspray from that fresh paint on everything else under the hood)...and that thing must be brand new.... brandon

 

Steer clear of "unfinished projects". If the car was as easy to finish as the ad/owner says, he would have finished it.

 

The price of the car should be directly related to the number of parts missing. I think the biggest thing is a title. Some states it a real nightmare to get the paperwork in order.

 

Since it's your first project, get one with as little rust as possible. IMO, rust is the biggest project killer of all.

As some have mentioned, new paint on a "project" car. What are they hiding?

Check the frame, very well. Frame rust is a huge deal without you having a real shop with real skills.

While replacement panels are available for popular vehicles, they are NOT available for many many cars and then you'll be custom fabbing your replacement metal. This is again, not an easy task, without skills and equipment.

Glass. Few mention it but I've spent a year finding a replacement piece of glass. Can't get an inspection without glass.

Know production numbers or check them out before buying. Low production numbers make the care rarer but much more costly to redo.

 

Alot of it will depend on your skill level. and your money resources, and where you want to go with the project. I have seen many projects on the HAMB that i would have never even tried, yet some people can make a diamond out of a pile of shit. I know my limitations and try not to go too far outside of them, unless i feel i can learn what it takes to get beyond the snags. I guess, just be thinking reality when you go look at what you think might be a good project for you. And dont let your emotions over weigh your abilities, or financial ability to complete it before you lose interest.

 

empty bank account

 

If it's missing trim and/or instruments it WAS the donor/mascot car!

Title AND current registration in your state.
Even someone who's given up n the work can and should at least make it legal to him so you can make it legal for you.

 

Some good advice here. I haven't been at this for ages either, but what I learned so far:

- know what you're good at. I'm good at mechanical but suck at bodywork. Therefore, I would never buy a rusty POS to fix since I'd have to have someone else do most of the welding and fabrication. The rust you see is only the begining. It's why I spent the $$ to get southern US cars instead of buying a Canadian bondo buggy.

- stick to popular cars since parts are available. I had a '56 Merc before I got into '49-51 Fords. With the Merc., if the part didn't interchange with Ford you were on your own. I spent 6 months looking for a working temp sending unit. I can buy a new Ford one out of a catalog.

I thought engine components were expensive until I started pricing chrome plating. If the car has a lot of pitted chrome, you're into a pile of money to fix it. 50's Buicks and Caddy's have tonnes of chrome. To give you an example it can cost around $1,000 to rechrome a shoebox Ford grille. Price a mid'50s Caddy grille and bumpers....

Best advice on this tread. Make sure you know how much you are getting into financially. I'm an accountant and I got shocked when I started adding up the cost. Buying a project is the cheapest part of the buildup. There is nothing worse than staring at an unfinished pile of parts you've spend thousands on sitting in your garage knowing you don't have the money to finish it. I've spent 3X what I paid for the car to get it this far (running, licensed, a few kustom touches, with a new interior in primer). I'm about 1/2 way finished.

I'd start off with a decent, running '49-54 Chevy or Ford to try your hand at a restoration. Parts are easy to find and pretty reasonable. Caddy parts are not. Just my 0.02.

 

1. title. Without this, it's not yours.
2. complete. You can spend more time tracking down the missing items than fixing what you have. This is also a way to recoup some costs if you are not using some stuff.
3. Rust. A rust free car will usually go for 30-60% more. It's worth it unless you are a metal man, and they always try to find the best body.
4. bad mods. This can mean poor welding, uneven bodywork, wrong parts added, unsafe items, etc. If you have to undo a bunch of stuff that you paid for, you will get behind every time.
5. coverup primer/paint as mentioned.
6. basketcase. Unles you have taken apart THAT model, and know every part, you will find that almost every basketcase violates rule #2.
7. be wary of anyone stating a completed percentage or using a term like 2 weeks from running/driving. Unless they just had a huge life-changing issue preventing it from being finished, they are well aware of how much more they can get for a truly running/driving car. It's usually a lot further from done than stated.

 

In my exp there are a few rules to follow.
1. how much space will I need.
2. always pick the car you want "dont settle for somthing close in the end it wont be what you want"
3. Shop around hit all the majors "want adds, car traders, craigs list, friends,here, hemmings,last resort ebay"
4. Stay away from hard to find parts cars for your first job. stick with ford or chevy.

 

Walk before you try to run.

Get something that may not be the top of your hit list. Fix it up adding value and then sell it to move on to nicer stuff.

Get something that is as complete as possible.

The cheapest thing you find probably won't be the best deal.

Orphan make cars are usually cheaper but there will be no "kits" available for the first timer.

Keep it simple while you get your feet wet.

 

I'd say that 49Coupe and RodSTRace have pretty well filled in the blanks. Add in what GatorO'dell and Tommy added.

I'd say that the (clear title) hopefully with a current registration is one of the key factors you should think about.

One thing you should do is decide what you want the car to be and look like.
It sounds like you are looking for a bigger car that can be a semi custom with just a few mods but mostly stock appearing on the outside. With the cars you were mentioning I think I would be looking for a running and driving "older" restoration. A car that was redone 25/30 years ago and driven that isn't a first rate show car but isn't a rust bucket out of the woods. Just don't mention that you want to modify it and don't wear your hotrod shirt when you go to look at it. You might pay a bit more for it but the headaches should be less.

If you buy someone else's unfinished project. Don't pay extra for things you will not use when you build the car yourself. Just because he has the billet wheels and low profile tires that he bought for it doesn't mean that they have to be sold or bought with the car. That goes for other pieces that you know you wouldn't use and have to get rid of. Some parts are good trading material or have a value to others such as early Cad ohv engines or Cad flatheads if you planned to swap in a later engine but say the car came with a full decked out Small block Chev and you wanted to run a 500 Cad that would be paying extra for the fresh small block that you didn't plan to use. The list goes on and on here but you should get the general idea.

Know your limitations. Too many projects go by the wayside because guys overestimate what they are capable of skill wise or financially. More car projects probably get sold because the significant other in the builders life gets tired of "that thing" taking up all of the garage space.

 

Buy the book "Hot Rodders Bible" this will give you basics of what to look for and look out for.Good information for new rodders.

 

as stated.... Fresh primer. Spray bomb primer is a dead giveaway. Fresh body work is another flag. If it "ran when parked" make sure you hear it run, from a cold start. If the motor is warm when you get there, be careful.

 

You'll get a million opinions on this - and out of books. Everybody has their own ideas on how to shop for a car. "Don't buy the first one you look at.", etc., etc.

My opinion -- it's not unlike other cars. Crawl under it. Crawl into it. Crawl around it. Examine it as closely as possible. Learn as much as you can about the model and make of car you're looking for, that way you'll know what's right, and what's not right, about any car you're looking at. Look for parts before you buy - that way you'll know which parts are hard to come by, and which ones are usually available, and that way you can more accurately judge the value of whatever car you look at.

Knowldge before you go looking is key.

And know what you want to have in the end, before you set out to get it. Do you want a show car? A good driver? A rough-around-the-edges driver?

Good luck
Pete

 

avoid any car that the owner says "the hard part is already done"

 

Awesome feedback has already been given, but let me add the one piece of advice I always give to anyone contemplating their first project car.
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Ask yourself this question: Do I want to build this car myself because I really want to do the work, or am I doing it because that is the only way I can afford it? Now I know it is a bit of both for most of us, but the desire to do the work had better be very strong or you will hate this car very quickly and never get what you want done.
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Try answering this same question stated this way: if you won the lottery tomorrow and were a multi millionaire, would you still do the work yourself? If you answered no, then buy a fully finished car.
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Now I must acknowledge that you stated you wanted to start with a weekend wrencher, so your answer to the above questions aren’t as crucial as someone contemplating a full on project. None the less, if you intend to do any of the work your answers to the above questions are pertinent, especially for your choice of car.
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Good luck and welcome to the greatest activity on Earth.

 

dont start a project with a project,,if its going to take you a few years to get a body back to square one then you will loose interist

 

Thanks a lot to everyone.

Great info here so far.

I know for you guys it's probably a no-brainer, and after reading some of the posts it echoes a lot of the common sense I had as well. "had" being the key word, not "have".

Something about seeing a car in the flesh that is well within my price range that flicks a switch in my head that turns me into an instant retard. Normally I have my wife to slap some sense into me, but when it comes to cars she usually tells me to do whatever I want which is more a double edged sword than I ever thought it could be.

As much as I'd hate to do it I think I may just have to go with a "easier/cheaper" car to restore first. Although I have full blown automotive A.D.D I do get attached to the cars I actually tinker with or alter in any way, which is why I wanted to start of with cars I've always wanted.

Rust is the other big thing, I'll have to stay as far away from that as possible. Looks like I just carried away reading some of the posts in here where people manage to turn a mountain of rust flakes into a car most people will give their right arm for.

 

Not necessarily true.. Some people just get burned out go broke or have health issues.. Good deals can be had on unfinished stuff.
dave

 

All good advice above. Look at your own talents too and what your tool inventory looks like. I had to buy a compressor and welder then teach myself how make a weld rather than a temporary hot glue job. I hadn't done body work in 40 years and all the materials we use today are decidely different from the 1950's. If you can't weld then frame, suspension and body work are not really viable unless you want to spend a heck of a lot of time learning to do them right. Early Fords have lots of reproduction parts available, Chevs almost as many. Identify a model that you'd like to have then price out what it will cost to buy a new fender or floor pan, how much a top end or bottom end rebuild costs, or what is involved in putting a Mustang II under the car. How hard are parts to find? That way you'll have a better idea of what you are up against. It's way harder to find good parts for relatively rare vehicle than one that has had wide popularity. I don't know what Maine environmental laws are like but on the left coast you can get yourself in deep s**t by saturating your next door neighbor's BBQ with overspray. It is a truly rewarding hobby. There is almost as much satisfaction in having a new engine you built yourself light off on the first try as when you got your first "solo" flight in the family car. I think almost everyone agrees that for some folks buying a good solid car and then learning how to make it even better and "yours" rather than the car you bought makes a lot of sense. Another route but more expensive is to buy a "kit" car from one of the reputable frame/body companies and go the crate route. You still get the privilage to say you built it yourself and most of the ugly kinks will have been ironed out in advance. Good luck.

 

You obviously know that a lot of it depends on your competency level, but all I learned on cars I learned by doing. The kind of project(s) I'm willing to tackle now would have scared the shit out of me a few years ago.
If you're passionate about it, or can see yourself driving it down the road, or if it is THE car you've always wanted, not matter the condition, well, you know what I would do. What would you do?

 

Gigantor, that's a great point.

I do want this to be a learning experience. Granted, for someone as green as me just about everything short of replacing brakes, flushing radiators, and other very simple things is going to be a learning experience.

Good thing there is a happy medium. I don't wanna learn how to weld since my garage won't allow it (not yet ). I don't want an English wheel where I'm gonna hammer and shape panels either. That said it would be cool to mess with the electrical system for example.

I've refined my search and won't completely give up on Buicks and Caddies if the condition of the car and price are right, but I'll definitely keep an eye out for Fords and Chevys.

sammam, I definitely considered going the completed or near completed car route, but there's just something to be said about rescuing a car I guess. Sounds dumb, but I can't really explain it.

 

The title issues raised by others as a primary concern are non-issues in my state. Know the law in your own state before even looking at candidates.

 

It's been said here already, but it bears repeating. Buy the most complete car with the least amount of rust that your budget will allow. Little parts add up to lots of money, and while many of the talented folks here on the HAMB are not deterred by rust, if it's your first project and you're not a welder it's going to get expensive fixing severe rust properly. Otherwise, enjoy!

 

I sold an unfinished project to a guy once that bought a lot of them and his advice was to look the car over and decide what major work is needed. He categorized a car into three areas of concern: 1 engine/drivetrain 2 interior 3 exterior. If one of these were all that needed attention then he would buy it but if it needed two or more he would walk away.

 

You don't have to explain, most of us feel that way. I figger it's the male equivilent of the woman's nursing or mothering gene. They just gotta fix or care for humans in need. We gotta fix broken cars!

 

Chopped top without the glass installed. No the fricken hard part aint done!