Using a new roller 302 where an older 302 once was?

So the 302 in my Model A took a shit over the weekend. Its a 68 block and C4 tranny combo. The plan is to buy a long block and swap everything necessary from the old motor over to the new long block. My question is, can I use a newer roller 302 and still use everything needed from the old motor? I can't seem to get a straight answer.

 

I think the newer ones use a reverse rotation water pump, and there is something about intake manifolds too if it has fuel injection heads if I remember correctly. I also know there are a couple of different timing chain covers to concern with if you had a mechanical fuel pump.

There are a few guys on here that will know all the ins and outs that you need to be concerned with.

 

Should be a direct swap.

 

You definitely need a new flywheel. The old ones use a lighter balance weight than the newer models. The timing cover, oil pan, and everything else should swap. You need a steel distributor gear, the roller cam will eat the stock gear. I don't know about the fuel pump, you will reuse your timimng cover so that's not a problem but I don't know about the eccentric.

 

So I should be able to use the same intake, carb, fuel pump, water pump and distributor? How about on the tranny side? Direct bolt up? Same converter? Sorry if these are stupid questions . . .

 

You will need a 50oz flexplate,a steel or bronze distributor gear,swap the water pumps,oil pans/oil pumps,and whatever else you plan to use.Intake manifolds/exhaust manifolds interchange with zero problems.

 

oh and BTW...if you plan to use a mechanical fuel pump you will need to swap the timing cover as well.

 

Thanks guys! I just checked Jegs for the flexplate. Looks Like I can get one in the neighborhood of $100. Any recommendations? I'm assuming I just count the teeth on the flexplate in the car to determine whether I need a 157 or 164 tooth?

 

IIRC, The balancers are different too, make sure to use the one that comes with the new engine.

 

And if the new engine doesn't come with the balancer, what should I be looking for in a balancer?

 

They changed from 302 to 5.0 in 82 and went from a 28oz balance to a 50oz, you would need the flexplate and balancer from an 82 or later motor.

Everything FoMoCoPower said is spot on

 

I have done this swap. You will need:

New flexplate or flywheel
Swap the front cover for standard rotation water pump and fuel pump boss
Standard distributor will work (If its the stock cam - I believe they are cast roller cams and a standard dist gear will work)
Plug the air injection ports in the heads

 

Check out this thread:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188104&showall=1

There's alot of good info in it.

Malcolm

 

The Earlier dizzy will work the Ford roller cams are cast, even the Ford Motorsport roller replacement cams are cast. I like the B303.

Double check the torque convertor bolt pattern before you get the new 50oz flexplate ( if auto).

Put some bolts it the air inj holes in the back of the heads. I know someone who missed this step and burnt the paint off the firewall on both sides.....

Every thing else in a bolt on.

 

If you use the early timing cover you need to grind down the width of the fuel pump concentric.

Steve.

 

The extra power out of the roller motor will be worth it! I do have factory manuals for both motors. Let me know.......

 

Almost forgot I have a good friend that has a Mustang performance shop he will know Exactly whats needed and has parts. this is old technolgy to him so parts will be free or cheap.

 

Also double check whether you can use a mechanical fuel pump. I ordered one for my 302 HO build and grabbed an older timing cover that had the cutout for the pump. Coem to find out, there was no lobe for the mechanical fuel pump, so I swapped the mechanical for a Carter P4070 electric pump and used the blocked off timing cover that was on the HO engine.

 

So I just need to make sure my torque converter bolt pattern matches that of the new flexplate? All else it a direct bolt on from the old motor . . . manifold, carb, dizzy (the new motor has the E303 cam), water pump, fuel pump (or should I go electric with a 300 horse motor?), headers, etc?

 

K-MEMBER is doing this exact swap as we speak. We will install the engine today. 5.0 roller with all the 302 parts installed. Flex plate was rite for the C-4 converter. New dist was for a Maverick Grabber "GT" and later police cars ($69). He is keeping details and pics. Tech post to come.....OLDBEET

 

I'll be looking for that tech post! Locking down a deal on a built 5.0 roller motor right now.

 

The dizzy you will want to get is...cardon # 30-2831 that dizzy will have the right steel gear. That is a duraspark unit for 74 Mavrick Grabber and 85 Mustang with carb set up for a roller motor. Just give them the number I gave you, thats the cheapest route. Whole unit was $69.71. Hell some places get $33 to $100 plus just for the gear.
I did not have to grind any off of my fuel pump eccentric, just measure there are a few different ones. I will be finishing the assembly of mine hopefully today and try and post more info if desired.

 

Wrong....the roller cams are steel....not cast iron......if you use a cast gear with the roller cam,shit will get chewed up and stop working.

And yes,you do need to block of those holes...forgot about that.

Also,you can get an FRPP flexplate from Summit Racing for $38.95

 

I installed a [non HO] 302 from a 89 or 90 Grand marquis[FI] in my 60 ford 2dr Courier wagon a few years back...Seems like I left the water pump and timing cover and belt/pulleys alone..
I did use a pointa distributor from a 74 pickup[rebuild]...
the Edlebrock alum intake and carb from an older 302 fit with no issues...
it did NOT have provision for a mechanical fuel pump.....

 

OK, to re-cap:

1. 50oz flexplate
2. Steel or bronze distributor gear
3. Plug air injection holes in the back of the heads
4. Electric fuel pump (as I have been told that there is no provisions for mechanical with this 87 roller motor I'm getting -- is this right??)
5. All else should transfer from the old motor (intake, headers, valve covers, oil pan)

Will I need the timing cover, balancer and water pump for the new engine or from the old engine??

 

As I mentioned earlier, my '88 302 roller has no provisions for a mechanical fuel pump as-is and I didn't want to replace the cam just for that. The Carter P4070 that I ordered came in last week and looks like a great little electric pump. LOTS of folks on here recomended it as a reliable workhorse.

 

You don't need to replace the roller cam to use a mechanical fuel pump. You just need a mech. fuel pump timing cover and add a fuel pump eccentric (easily obtainable) on your cam gear.

Malcolm

 

Contact K-member He Is Doing The Swap Rite Now As We Speak
Moses

 

How about the balancer and water pump? Do I need one for the HO 87 roller motor or from the 68 non-roller 302?

 

Cool. Good to know. I'm going to stick with the Carter electric pump since I already have it. I'm in the process of building another 302 for a future project, so I'll definitely look at doing a mechanical pump on that one.