So I'm building my first car from scratch with my pops....a 1956 150 2 door Chevy wagon. Pretty rare and very bitchin. I wanna do bags so I'm trying to do the research on the best setup. I'm thinking Air Ride is the best, but should I go ShockWave or just regular bags in the rear? I want them done right. I'd like to get the best possible price, too. Do we get discounts for being an alliance member? Thanks in advance for the help!
Air Ride is not the best. I've been there and done that, and have seen that lesson in person. Air Ride is easy. Shockwaves are way easy. Easy isnt always good. I've ripped expensive Air Ride out, and replaced with something i built for lower cost- which is also much better. I'd recommend building your own setup, or taking the money you'd spend on Air Ride and pay someone to do it for you if you're not setup to do it. -scott noteboom
If I'm understanding you correctly, for the price of buying Air Ride's setup I could have someone build a setup for me and install it? If that's the case, that works for me! Their shit is expensive I thought but like I said, I'm new to bags. Thanks Scott. Anyone else with anymore advice...?
notebooms, I am curious what the rest of your story is. Why do you say what you say about Air Ride Technologies. WHY aren't they good? WHY is your setup much better? I would like to know. Dandingo, I don't have experience with homemade air ride stuff, but I can tell you I do have ART Shockwaves and I LOVE them. My front end is dead stock (No drop spindles or anything) except for the Shockwaves and an aftermarket stabilizer bar. The Shockwaves simply bolt in place of the coils and shocks and you drop her down. Done. I have the QA1 style aluminum shocks set on 9 and the car handles extremely well (back country roads and freeway off ramps are a blast). Many will tell you that you have to have a 4 wheel air setup to minimize side to side transfer of air. With 1/4 inch lines, I don't notice any problem with my front/rear air set up in a T. Maybe it would be a problem with larger lines, but I am not interested in speed, just adjustability. Check my pics for some idea of ride height.
Thanks for the response to both of you. Bob, do you have a link to a website for ART setups? Did you install them yourself? Was it pretty basic to do? Thanks again! -Dan
currently tied up, but let me try to give you a quick answer: - The last car i bagged was my 1960 Cadillac. - bought the Air Ride kit w/ Shockwaves for front and cups/bags on rear. - First of all, i understand that the things im going to describe next that I don't like are because Air Ride built a bolt-on solution, and my fixes required a lot of cutting, etc. Like I said, easy doesnt mean better.... Here is what i didnt like: 1) Car rode like shit when as low as I wanted for ride height. For example, the rear bounced badly. 2) Stance sucked, as the rear couldnt go long enough-- thus raked when the front was as low as i wanted. I wanted a 60's custom stance, not a hot rod stance. 3) The bags on front and rear are not good quality for a heavy car. Lower end Firestones. Here is what i did to fix: 1) Took off the $800+ Shockwaves on the front. Built my own cups and bought better bags (slam specialties.) Cut a lot out to lay frame. End result: better ride, better stance, more travel top to bottom.... This cost 1/2 the cost of the Shockwaves (which i sold on ebay) 2) Built own cups and put slam specialties in back. Cut a lot out. End result: better ride, better stance (the ground), more travel top to bottom... Cost was much less. That said, im using the Air Ride valves (Big Red) and doubling up to go four way control versus just front to rear (air roll on heavy car around corners.) I've also isolated front to rear with each having a dedicated 5 gallon tank and ViAir compressor. I built more for less. However, it was much more work (which i was happy to do.) Let me know if you have any specific questions. Like i said, this is intended to be a quick answer. -scott noteboom
i doubt it. maybe you can find some friends who can help you do it. if you lived in san jose, you'd be welcome to come to my place and put the car up on the lift. by the way-- to give credit where credit is due..... I was inspired to do my bags properly by hanging around at Alex Gambino's shop (Gambino Kustoms.) Thus, my first custom bag job on my own car I did myself successfully, and i did right. -scott noteboom
Thanks again. I'd like to do it as easy as possible. I don't have a whole lot of fabricating skills and since it's my first build, I'd like it to be simpler. I have a few buddies that do bags so I'll see if I can get a hand. Does anyone know how low I can get on my wagon without having to notch or do any cutting? It's obviously not gonna lay frame but I'd like it to sit pretty low. Thanks again...
loco louie just posted a thread about bagging his '56 2 door ht. you should check out the thread and write to him..
notebooms: how much total did you spend on you setup? not including the ART!.. i got a 70 deville i wanna bag and lay frame but have found ART to be far too expensive..perhaps i could get some info off you to try to get a good setup..caddys are real heave and with a 472 in the front the last thing i want is to be wiggle wagglin all over the highway.-thanks
I have bagged alot of cars, i have installed ART once, it was a simple install, but i suggest using slam specialties, It all depends on how low you ant to go. if you want it laying rocker then i would go with a triangulated four link. i buy all of my bags at a company up here in rancho cordova call F.B.I. the number is 1-800-324-6464, ask for dan, tell him what you are looking to do and he will take care of you. good luck with your project.
Don't stop here. Do 'how-to' thread w/ this other company and your install for a tech thread...............please.
The thing that I don't particularly like about Shockwaves as a bolt-on application is that you've got a lot of weight riding on aluminum shocks, as well as stock shock mounts that aren't designed to support the weight of the vehicle. Probably fine for a lightweight car, but not an old 2-ton car. I've seen more than one set of Shockwaves fail due to misalignment or bent mounts, and it wasn't because of an incorrect install. Shockwaves place a lot of weight on small, focused areas. Imagine pushing someone with the palm of your hand. Now imagine pushing someone with your index finger. Same force, but one creates a lot more pressure. I'm tired, so sorry if that doesn't make sense, but hopefully you know what I mean.
A how-to install bags would be top notch, if anyone's patient enough to do one. That would be sick...
all the magazines have run very nice articles on bagging vehicles...custom rodder (R.I.P.) Truckin,mini truck,street rodder.....am I the only guy that reads paper stuff still?
Is it slamspecialties.com? Thanx, learned alot..Shockwaves would probably work well on frontend of six cyl. 56 Chevy but not Cadillac, too heavy
I used slam specialties on my truck,and was real pleased.I too orded mine from F.B.I in Cali,and they were great to deal with.My only complaint was I used 1/2 " line and only had front to back,so I had bad air transfer around corners.The truck would lean for a while after I would make a turn.If I were to do it again I'd spend a little more money,and put valves on all corners or They may make somethin to prevent the air transfer,like a check valve,you'd hafe to ask,but like I said,they were real helpfull.I didn't get all my stuff when it all came in(heimjoints)and they sent some right out,no questions.
One piece of advice,don't make it so low when its aired out that you can't move it.Mine layed frame,had a valve mess up once,and I was screwed.All my valves ,tank and compressor were under the bed.Lucky for me,I was parked in a parking lot,and it was the one valve I could reach through the monster notch in the bed.Started carying a bottle jack after that so I could jack it up through the engine compartment or the notch hole in the bed.After that I was always worried about what would happen if I was going 70 or setting in traffic,and blow a bag or line,horrific crash or 5 mile traffic jam.That stuff didn't run through my head when I was Zing the frame to get those last few inches I needed to set the rockers on the ground
Dandingo, Sorry I didn't respond quicker. Here is some info: 1. ART = Air Ride Technologies 2. Website is www.ridetech.com 3. I installed the Shockwaves myself. Very simple. Some minor creativity required to safely run the air lines. Otherwise, simple bolt in stuff. 4. To a certain extent, I agree with notebooms, but it depends on what you want to do with your car. If you want to drive with the car's frame an inch off the ground or lower you will HAVE to do some fabrication and bags are probably the right thing to go with. 5. My car rides rough with the Shockwaves all the way down (0-25psi) Actually it rides bouncy. This is only happening to me when profiling in a parking lot or a downtown cruise or something and my headers are 3/4 inch off the pavement at that point. I don't drive the car normally like that. With 50psi, it rides good and sits about 1-1.5 inches higher (still low). At 80psi, the car rides great and sits a little higher yet. I will use 50-150 psi to get in a steep drive or over a speed bump. Other than that, I drive the car at around 30-50psi. 6. The other comments by noteboom I also agree with, but you better make sure this is what you want. In other words, "stance, the ground" "cut a lot out to lay frame". Nothing wrong with any of that. I dig it. You just better be prepared to engineer, fabricate, assemble and then live with the results. A cool look that will be laying on the freeway somewhere (or killing someone) if you lose air. Again, I dig the look, but make sure you can live with it (make your choices and pay your price.) 7. The air management system. If you just want to go up and down to look cool with a certain stance and to avoid road hazards, a simple T arrangement per axle and paddle controls with 1/4 line is fine. This setup greatly, no, hugely eliminates any side to side problems. If you want to suddenly slam the car down and throw sparks or have it instantly jump completely up to the highest setting, then you will need larger lines, the Big Red remote valves, a larger reserve air tank, maybe a second compressor, or even compressed nitrogen for a 300-500 pound system. For me, completely ridiculous and unnecessary (but am I entertained watching these guys crash their cars up and down, ABSOLUTELY!) 8. Wear and tear using Shockwaves... I have had no problem in 3 years. None. Completely happy. I have never met anyone with any issues except those that are abusing their cars by choice. You can't really bend any brackets on the 55 at least, because of the original equipment design. If you are strictly concerned about that issue, the lower a-arms and upper shock mounts could be easily reinforced without much effort. 9. Check out my pics to see where the car sits almost all the way down (Note, I actually have Shockwaves only in the front and the rear is lowered more traditionally. I use the air system for adjustability to clear things, otherwise it is lowered almost all the way in the front). In most of the pics, it is lowered almost all the way. With the Shockwaves, it can be raised about 5 inches from where you see it sitting. 10. Bottom line. Every system has its place. I have admired many setups and like each for their intended use. I would agree a cheaper, maybe even better system could be built with bags depending on what you are doing. But to really answer your questions, you seem like you are still learning about this stuff and I think you would be happiest with either the Shockwaves or at least a bolt in bag kit (or having someone else being paid to do the fabrication). You will have to personally decide what type of system you want in the end and what you are willing to live with. Kind of like deciding to go with 13:1 compression or 5.38 gears Make your choices and live with them!
good post right above from redlinetoys. reading through it does remind me to really point out-- if you have ANY thought that you dont know what you're doing, then dont build a system that deflates to the ground. one thing about Air Ride Technologies-- i think they purposely give up some things to obtain ride height safety and ease of install. please dont take my advice, if you cant live with what could happen (especially if you dont do it right.) laying frame at highway speed, then dont do it. -scott noteboom
I have recently been rethinking the whole airbag thing. Mine has a late model Chevy front clip under it and when I let all the air out the front end rests on the massive crossmember. The fear of a blowout on the highway haunts me. Any one of a couple dozen possible failures in the air suppy and I am dead on the highway throwing sparks. After all, we are supposed to drive these things and have fun. I am considering going either to hydraulics or something more conventional. Laying frame doesn't excite me - have I lost all my testosterone?
No. I like the idea of laying frame. Kind of like driving with a fruit jar master cylinder (which I still am...) Just gotta be aware and be careful. Some things bother me more than others (like I have added a hitch pin to my hood closure so it CAN'T possibly fly up at speed. Peace of mind...) However, if you really don't care about throwing sparks, you should think about two things. 1. Either some stops that don't allow it to drop all the way down when all 4 tires are inflated (safer at most times, than what you have). 2. Or... some stops that don't allow ANYTHING to touch the ground, even when you DO have a flat tire(or two). Gets more challenging now! Notebooms: I would agree with you. ART has surely thought about their liability in this issue (and crafty guys engineer around it!) I don't even have drop spindles on mine. If I did, the front would be 2 inches lower yet and would definitely be laying on the ground (It drags on crowned roads now at less than 50psi, so the only point of going lower yet would be profiling at shows. One problem with hydraulics is that they can be really firm (rough) depending on the engineering. Moonglow: If you need peace of mind, I would leave your current system and build in some simple rubber stops that would catch the car before it hits the road, either utilizing number 1 or 2 scenario above. Not likely that a tire would blow AND an air line or bag would go, but do what makes you feel comfortable with driving and enjoying your ride...
Great posts guys. Really opens the eyes to potential issues with the bagged systems and really helps people make good decisions before purchasing. There are ALOT of options in the arena and a lot of articles to review, but like Scott said, talking to the installers even just for helpful hints, is the best options. Most likely someone near you or at the next show has done a car similar to yours. Jon
I'd like to throw up some shit if you guys don't mind. I've done a lot of adjustable suspensions, and just about all of them have laid frame. I've done 'em with air bags and hydraulics. And I can honestly say that if your install is done right, you should have absolutely no fear of a blow out. I personally am a BIG fan of hydraulics, and I know they have a bad rep. But there are ways to make them ride better than air. Install a set of nitrogen filled accumulators in the pressure side, and they act as a shock absorber. This takes the firmness out of the ride, and you can dial the ride in by adjusting the pressure. If you use the correct hoses and what not, it should be a trouble free setup. Plus, hydraulics were around way back when, and air bags weren't. I install air bags on cars/trucks for people that have no desire to do regular maintenance. Also, for great prices on bags, and 4 links, and brackets and all that shit, check out suicidedoors.com. They orver engineer their stuff, and you will love em.
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