Diesel applications for hot rods

I was actually thinking about this, since my neighbor has an 81 Mercedes that he couldn't get to pass inspection since it's so rusty. But, at 224k miles and still running strong, the 5-cylinder inline diesel could be mine for next to nothing, he's willing to barter with me for some tattoo work. Hell, the mill could even be kinda cool looking if done right.

 

I think one could work well in that situation, a custom......it still wouldn't be fast, but very reliable, good mpg, still expensive for parts....you could drive it anywhere....if you could find a low-mileage(100,000 miles is nothing to a diesel), small diesel (Isuzus run forever), the engine would far outlast the car.......

 

Actually I should clarify my non-trad stance a bit...

Mercedes has been building automotive 'performance' diesels since the 30s...

They've been racing them at least as early as the 1952 Le Mans... At least that's the earliest record I could find in the extremely cursury search I did... Someone educate us on the earliest Diesel Race Cars if you would...

So a diesel could be real bitchin' in a purely trad car if done right... It would probably be extremely hard and expensive to 'do it right' however... But I'd love to see it done.

 

Funny this should come up. The other night I was thinking about taking the tudor to Europe once its done on a bit of a long distsance cruise across the continent from Australia. Knowing the price of fuel I was thinking maybe a little 4 cycl diesel might be the go. I know this kind of thinking will get me booted off here but it sure would leave more money for boozn and cruizn. Just a thought ..,.....

 

Cummins built an Indy car back in the fifties that was kicking ass until the air intake (On the bottom of the car) clogged up with rubber from the track. There is also a guy running a rear engine rail with a Cummins 6bt in it. Myself, I'm hoarding Mercedes engines for a couple of future projects. I just need to figure out how to get a little more out of the injector pumps on these buggers.

 

i love the idea of a turbo diesel powered old truck! cost is the damning variable for me though... if i were gonna do it, id want either a cummins ($$$) or a duramax (still$$$). you'll have to keep us posted on your build, dude! good luck!

 

Performance Diesels are alive and well. As I mentioned earlier 0-60 in 6.5seconds and 35mpg for the BMW535D.

Someone hit the nail on the head though when they mentioned the electronics. The issue would not be in getting it to run it would be all the other sensors that a modern car runs and are wired into the ECU to enable it to run properly.

And modern high speed Diesels are now a lot lighter than you would expect.

I beleive that Audi use a version of the Lemans winning V8 Diesel in the A8.

An interesting thread, how long till somene actually does it?

P.

 

i don't really mean to be a dick, but i just want to put up the red flag:

if you really, REALLY want to make your own biodiesel, make GODDAMN sure you have your ducks in a fuckin' straight row before you ever think about touching any vegetable oil. get your system all set up, plumbed, and even run 10-20 cycles with water to make sure you got everything where you want it, no leaks, etc. my roommate, who introduced me to diesel power, got this wild hair up his ass last spring. he says to me:
"hell yeah, dude! 50 cents a gallon!"
he goes out, buys all the shit, lifts a bunch of fittings & shit from the tool room at work, then starts building this monstrosity of a reactor in the middle of our garage floor. the thing looks like a damn still! hoses & valves everywhere! the whole time i'm telling him this isn't gonna fuckin' fly b/c i'm building my 54 2ft away & he hasn't thought this out too well. he says:
"don't worry, i just wanna get it all mocked up ,then i'll move it."
so then, i go with him to pick up some oil. this is nasty, fuckin' backbreaking work! that episode of dirty jobs does NOT do it justice!
i went out of town with my old lady for the weekend. when we came back, i had a tony soprano-style panic attack in the driveway (no shit)!
there, in my garage with my newly acquired 54 belair, was a slick of used vegetable oil, at least 1 1/2" deep over the whole fuckin' floor and it had splashed all down my car. and we're not talkin' about nice clear oil here. this is fuckin' nasty & unfiltered. full of pieces of fries, chicken, fish, chinese food, unfiltered rotten fuckin' sludge! i hunt down my roommate. all he has to say is: "well, i got tired of pumping it in by hand, so i decided to try and pour it in and it spilled. then when i fired it up, i had a few leaks."
now, he's a fat, lazy fuck, so i got stuck trying to clean all that shit up before johnny law from the EPA or some shit came to get us. what a depressing fuckin' job. that shit never completely comes off, & the smell never really goes away. hell, my garage & his truck both still smell like rotting, fermenting fuckin' oil.

 

OMG Hilarious. Fast eddies is building an ultra radical pro street chevelle diesel powered with 2000 ft lbs of torque. Diesel will get it on.

 

There are a few diesel rods over here in the UK, there was a write up on one on http://www.uk-hotrods.co.uk/v2/garage_scene/ at one time. With gas at about $7 a gallon here it's not such a stupid idea!

 

I liked the sound of this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQKfdwUywVA&mode=related&search=

Betting it's quick too.

 

Ok, here's another thought. The electrics were mentioned, along with all the sensors and shit. What if I found a late 50s-early 60s Mercedes 4-cylinder diesel? They couldn't have too much krap to hook up, right? No computers or stuff like that. In a cut-down homebuilt track-T roadster, the thing would be half the weight of the old Mercedes. Probably make it up to 45mpg easy, and look pretty fucking excellent, too.

 

The 2.8 turbodiesel engine in my daily driver '91 Isuzu Trooper has no electronics, all mechanical injection, just hook up a couple of wires and away it goes, with a decent intercooler it puts out some pretty respectable HP and bags of torque.

 

at the hunnert car pile up there was an A pickup with a kabota 4cyl diesel mated to a t5 he said he could cruse at 75mph allday. and wasent that loud
my daily is a 2000 vw jetta tdi 50 mpg at the worst and plenty of power if i add injectors and a chip i could have 350ft lbs! thats a 1.9L !

 

I think I'd rather do a propane conversion. No funny sound, faster, cleaner, and NO STINK!

 

It's all a matter of perspective. If you are used to gas engines, yes the exhaust is more noticable. But, other than being higher in particulate (the black stuff you see) most diesels are lower emissions wise. But, since the smoke is thick and black, people tend to see them as grosser polluting.

Ask Hack about what I said about this subject a few years ago... and RacerRick should be glad I didn't do it.

Jay

 

I can't believe anyone here is complaining about engines being loud...

You definitely want to go with something smaller than you'd get in an American truck, though... the Cummins I6 is still only 5.9L, but it weighs at least 1,000 pounds (just the engine). They'd go great in an old truck, but probably not in a car unless it was a reeeeal big one. Even the small ones are still expensive also, just because everything on it is heavy-duty, even if it's out of a Jetta or whatever. Making power is never a problem, but they make it in a different way than gas engines do so you'd want to gear it differently.

I dunno about the electronics on newer ones, but I can't believe they'd be much more complicated than any late-model engine. Diesels also went way longer than gas engines did before they computerized anything. There's just the injection pump and maybe a turbo. Common-rail diesels are better but more complicated.

Europe puts diesels in everything from tiny little microcars and up, so it's doable no matter what...you just gotta find the engine.

 

A couple people chimed in about Diesel stink. Well, it will be going away soon, because the diesel that is being produced now is low sulfur fuel, and the sulfur is what stunk.
As to electrics on Merc diesels - there aren't any. No 'leccy lift pump, no solenoid shutoff, no nothing wiff wires at all, save the starter. And if you get one old enough, they DID have starter crank fittings, and I will call you SIR!! if you can crank one of those...
The beauty of a mechanically injected turbo-diesel is the ease of hopping them up: more fuel and more boost. Just pump in more of both until a rod appears or a head gasket blows, then turn it down a notch.
Cosmo

 

we've got a few of the new VW Touaregs with V10 diesels running 500ftlbs of torque stock.They are very impressive with power but look like a nightmare to work on.

 

I've driven a Sprinter with dcm diesel everyday for the last year. For the 9 years prior to this I drove a cummings. The engines are both impressive in their particular applications, but for a hot rod or even a custom??? I don't see any advantages to be gained over gas powerplants short of a cummins in a coe or custom rollback, etc.
My employer has quit buying sprinters due to cost. I believe they can buy brand new entire econolines for the cost of dcm diesel replacement engine, not to mention the initial vehicles purchase price. And I haven't exactly seen a lot of sprinters in junk yards. BMW diesel $$$$. Audi diesel $$$$$. BMW DCM Audi these aren't exactly cheap plentiful cars overfilling the local u-pull-it (atleast not here in TX) I feel pretty comfortable suggesting any savings in mpg would never overcome the initial purchase price. If I were looking to maximize mpg civic crx engines would seem a lot wiser choice as far as miles per dollar and hp requirements.

And a cummings 5.9 is heavy. Just in case no heard: They're heavy.

There is no free lunch. Physics is physics. Turbos and intercoolers require space, produce heat, etc. Complex engine management electronics/ high-low side fuel pressure fuel pumps etc. Unnecessary and unproductive $$$$$$$$$ and headaches unless you're gale banks building a "sponsored" land yacht (where weight is a good thing.)

I just don't see it being a fruitful venture for any US hotrod project, now maybe for guys where diesel engines are more plentiful it might make sense. Btut the whole idea of a diesel 4 or 5 banger getting 50 mpg producing 600 ft-lbs for a "normal" $$$ outlay fitting in a "normal" engine bay on a "normal" frame is too good to be true.

 

I've thought about this too. I have access to an early 90's Mercedes sedan, cheap. Swapping it into my 52 chevy pickup seems like it would be a good swap. I haven't looked into what the engine weighs but I assume it wouldn't be much more than a chevy I6.

 

Yeah, but what are your real feelings saying?

 

See, I think I'm on a slightly different page than some folks here. For this project, I'm looking for a daily driver that looks neat and gets kickass mileage. I don't care if mopeds are passing me in the fast lane, or if I'm the slowest damned thing on the road besides the squashed possum. If I wanted speed, I could hop in one of my other cars and get my fix real quick. So, torque and hp aside, that's why I am looking into a Mercedes 4 or 5 cyl diesel, because I know they're reliable and I could get one free or cheap. Plus, they're rear wheel drive, so that just makes the swap that much easier, I would be using the entire drivetrain.

 

A guy around here is running a Olds. diesel in his 50 Merc., cool sounding set of pipes. He's a little strange tho.

 

I've kinda skimmed over this thread, and haven't seen any mention of the Detroit Deisel. Baaad engines. I've seen 'em go to 10,000 rpm without scattering. No computer needed to run one, and they're the only Deisel engine that doesn't sound like it's go a rod knockin'. In fact, they sound alot like a Top Fueler or a Funny Car. And thats just at an idle. They're 2 stroke, always supercharged, sometimes turbocharged too (especially the Grey Marine military versions). Once you've heard a Detroit running at full throttle, you never forget it. A fella could easily run a 3-53 or 4-53 in a rod, they're the smaller ones. Check out Grigg's rides on the 'Bolt. He put one in his old Chevy truck.
BTW-Those Detroits is where the numerical blower designations came from. The numbers are actually the # of cyliders and displacement of each cylinder on a Detroit. Example-6-71= 6 cylinder x 71 cid per cylinder = 426 cid. The terms for the blower designation comes from the use of the Rootes type blowers from the Detroit engines when they were put on gas engines.
As far as actually using one myself? Well, I do have this idea of using a 2-53 from a John Deere 430 Industrial as an engine in a chopper.

 

Another note-I'd stay away from the Mercedes deisel, especially the 5 cylinder. Every one I've ever been around was junk. No power, hell, they have a hard time pulling the original application cars around. And they weren't even the big Benz's. Plus they vibrate horribly. I personally don't care for any odd cylinder engine, especially if they're 5 cylinder. just seems to be a bastard setup.

 

They may get better mileage but the price of diesel has been about 5%-8% higher than 87 octane gas for a long time where I live.Seems to me like it may be a waste of time? More work ,less options,smells bad,all to save a few cents on fuel.I say buy a diesel to drive to work and keep your hot rod sounding like a hot rod.Whatever you do,don't use anything German.$$$$$to work on and a huge pain in the ass most of the time.

 

I would suggest that you have only seen one from afar.I have lived with two Merc 617.952's (the 5 cylinder turbo-diesel) and can assure you that you are completely and inutterably wrong. Tuned properly, these are tyre smokers and MAJOR highway cruisers. The torque once the turbo is fully spooled is vast. Remember, the W123 chassis cars weigh nearly two tons, the W126 (S class) two and a half. And still 0-60 in 10 seconds or so for a properly tuned example.
If, as you say, they had trouble pulling the original app cars around, would there still be the outrageous demand for these cars??
Would an example be THE car that has traveled the longest at nearly 2 million miles??
If a diesel engine shakes and smokes, might it not be time for new injectors?? The injectors ARE the spark plugs of the diesel world, and I bet you don't run 200K on one set of sparkers, do you??
As to being German meaning that it is expensive and a pain in the arse, I dunno - I have only driven the one 100,000 miles; maybe the expense and pain comes after 300,000???
Trans rebuild DID cost me nearly $200 in parts, but that was the easiest to rebuild and best built trans I have ever seen.
Cosmo

 

At the rate the EPA is constricting diesel engine manufacturers in the USofA we can all forget about diesels. At the rate our friends across the pond are putting them into their vehicles we'll all be importing their stuff!(diesel fiends that is)

Mercedes Diesels with Mobil 1 and basic maintenance will go over A MILLION MILES before it's FIRST overhaul.

Electronic engines are no big deal folks. There are probably fewer parts than your average 4.6 DOHC cobra install for your '32 Coupe. Modern electronics on these engines is what has opened the envelope of power and maintaining the fuel economy. What kind of mileage does a 900HP BBC make?

And how did Gale Banks classify a DAKOTA with a CUMMINS as a production truck? I would LOVE to get my hands on a Dakota with a cummins and a 5 speed to drive around here on the streets.
Does that mean I could put a 900 HP Powerstroke in a Ranger and call it a production truck too? How'd that work?
And what would tempt someone to put a 2 stroke detroit in their 1/2 ton?CRAZY!

Good luck with the conversion. lets see pics and the results when you're done.

Mike
Yup. Diesel parts is expensive. I dont mind waiting 500,000 miles for my first rebuild though.

 

Anyone seen Don Robertson's 'The Other Woman' truck up in Jerome Arizona? It's old turquoise big rig (a Mack I think, its early for me still.....) that he did up and put in a modern diesel engine. I don't have any pic's of it but its a very nice truck.