Any aluminum wheel can have the appearance of tapered, If the tapered lugnuts are ran in enough times...
Looking closely at your pics, it looks to me like the wheel bolt pattern on the rotor hub is slightly mis-drilled judging how the wheel studs aren't centered in the spacer holes. Easy enough to check, install the wheel with just two lug nuts (just hand tight) next to each other, then look at how the other three look in their respective holes. If they're not centered EXACTLY in their hole (offset by any visible amount), that's the problem. You've got all the right parts, the only variable is the rotor hub. You don't need the hubcentric spacers, just a new rotor drilled correctly..
It could be the 2mm spacer plate that is not drilled accurately, which shouldn't matter. In retrospect, it could be the use of spacers that is causing the problem. There is a lot of opinion not to use them as they can cause wheels to come loose. Ok, let's consider a new box of frogs open. Not all will agree. I'm sticking with 60* conical nuts being wrong.........
I just zoomed in up real close on the wheel nut in this pic. Is the tapered face fouled with alloy from the wheel??? This could be a sign that tapered nuts have been wrongly used in shank style holes.
These made by Gorilla. A must for the new style conical style thick aluminum wheels…..should be mandatory. I have them on my newer American Torque Thrusts…. I like the older shank nut with 1/4” thick washers but wheels aren’t made for them today!
Finally found some good pics to show the two different hole types. This one is for 60* conical nuts. Note the large tapered face, and that there is not a flat recess around the hole. This is the shank style. It has recessed flat machined edges around the holes for the washers to seat on. If you look closely you can see a small tapered edge as well, but nowhere near enough for conical nuts.
Maybe that one wheel giving you the problem was in the last batch off the line that was intended to use the flat washer and shank lug nuts, that may have missed a machining step? Do the other wheels that seem to be working correctly, have the step around the lug holes? I have never seen aluminum wheels with a machined step use conical lug nuts. Any aluminum wheel that uses conical lug nuts has always just had tapered holes. Someone posted tapered washers that fit into the steps in the wheel, those could be your problem solver. The tapered steel washers that fit into the machined steps in the wheel should work with the tapered lug nuts, if your studs have enough threads to have adequate stud thread length to lug nut engagement to hold the wheel. The length of the thread engagement has to be equal to the diameter of the lug, or at least 7/16" of thread engagement after the wheel is on, in your case. I also think I would recheck the torque on all the wheels about every 10 miles, until they remain torqued without tightening more. I assume you have slip on rotors, along with a wheel spacer, tapered washers, and aluminum wheels and you are expecting the tapered on the conical lug nuts to hold everything tight. Sometimes it takes a few rounds of torquing to get everything seated.
Possible mis-drilled spacer, but again, easy to check. Trying it on the other side may tell the tale. I've used spacers a number of times with no issues. The OP is having trouble with only the one wheel, and the rotor is the only real variable. The only other thing that comes to mind is the wheel mounting surfaces aren't flat; one or the other may be slightly convex, although this should have shown up on the drum brakes if it's the wheel.
I don't see what the spacer has to do with anything. The wheel will sit against it just like it would on the hub. Providing you're using the right lug nuts and the studs/lugnuts aren't offshore crap.
My view is that the 'taper' we are seeing is more of an overzealous 'edge break' to the hole than an intended seat. I would definitely be going the route of nuts with a flat washer.
Change the wheels from left to right and see if your problem moves. It it does it’s your wheel, if it stays it’s your hub! Bones
So much infos to go through. To clarify things further. The front disc kit is from Clark's Corvair, they are slip on, the flange on the disc is thicker than on the drums which is why I had to swap the studs for those wheels. I had to skim the outer edge of the hub on the lathe for the rotor to fit over as per Clark's instructions. The press in studs in 7/16-20 I used are the longest I could find, the hubs are originals, I had to redrill the hubs for that, I even bought the correct size drill bit for this and did it on the drill press. Not the first time I did this kind of mod. You guys are right the tapers on the wheels are really skinny, I thought it was strange, then again when you look at the infos provided by Jegs and Speedway they states 60° tapered lug nuts. I made the spacers using a legit spacer for this bolt circle as template because I couldn't find any so thin, at least in Europe. Anything commercially available was too thick and would have been a problem for the studs length and probably have the tires rubbing the fenders while turning. As recommended I will contact ARE with the wheel number to see what they have to say. It sure does look like galling on the nut in the picture. Last thing is when I look up 0.62" diameter shank lug nuts on Summit site, only 60° shank style come up, not a single one with washers.
here it is again for you........ https://www.burtonpower.com/graysto...xgD7UdVFdHnlBxIHMTEM0MQCXPT2ShnnngVsJX8CdiYfX
These lugs may solve your problem https://www.ebay.com/itm/311157459337 I did not notice the price, there are cheaper ones out there. Trans Am /Camaro the built in washer centers the wheel.
Look again at the very first picture posted, that wheel clearly takes a flanged nut, so stop confusing the guy and let him just go get the right nuts, Period
I don't believe that taper on those wheels is for a conical nut; it's there to allow a shanked nut to guide into the wheel without fighting it. With the flat recess milled into those wheels they should use a shanked nut, not conical. My American Torq Thrust are from 2019 and use conical nuts, but they don't have that flat milled area, just the tapered milled hole for conicals.
Measure the stud diameter. I have seen studs undercut by a fraction that looked right, fit the discs just fine, and feel like they pull up tight, but the slight undercut allowed the studs to move just enough under load that they'd walk themselves loose. Probably a long shot, but worth checking if you haven't already.
Are you sure you are using the correct lug nuts? The last time I had american mags my wheels required this type of lug nuts. HRP A Shank Style lug nut is also called "Mag Seat" and generally uses a washer. It has an extended shank that fits into the hole on the wheel. The depth and diameter of the shank vary.
Yeah, that is the question. And they were apparently fine when bolted to the drum brakes. FWIW, I have an older set of TTs like the OP and my stud holes are machined just like his... and has had those conical nuts fitted for 15 years with no issues. That's also pretty typical on OEM alloy wheels which use conical nuts, which is probably where the design came from. And seeing how the rotors are slip-on, that should rule out bolt pattern issues. So that leaves the changes made, rotor and studs. I'd really like to see a pic of both sides of the hubs, but what I'd look at is this... Wheel studs. Two things I'd look for here. One, does the knurl on the stud stick out beyond the hub mounting surface? That could prevent the rotor from fully seating, you would have to countersink the rotor holes. Two, are the studs fully seated in the hub? Hubs are usually spot-faced for the stud flange to fully seat, if the new stud has a larger flange it may not be seated all the way. Rotor. Check to make sure both inside/outside mounting faces on the rotor are flat. If either one is even slightly convex, that could do it. May not hurt to check the hub too. Every once in a while you can get a 'tolerance stack' that can cause issues. Recommended torque on these is 75-85 ft-lbs.
The OP stated that he'd only driven 10 miles when he found the loose lug nuts on one side. Maybe the other side just needs another 10 or 20 miles before it starts loosening up too. I don't think the OP ever mentioned checking the torque on the lug nuts on the other wheel.
@chrisp Keep us informed on , By chance if We or I missed Did you happen to mic Bore in wheel , what that #.? & Mic the Od of mag lug # is ? If pocket in wheel / rim is flat & squared for washer , I do not see why A Mag lug with washer would not stay tight as Long as there No more then .010 - .020 ish thoe between Bore in wheel compared to O.D of lug Shank .
Year's ago the left side of the car had left hand threads lug nuts the thought it would keep the wheel from coming loose. Had to do with the rotation of the wheel helped keep them tight. Thats also why knockoff wire wheels have right and left hand thread knock off’s. The step on the rotor or drum locates the wheel and the lug nuts hold them tight to the rotor or drum. With out the raised flange or step there is nothing to keep the wheel centered, and it will flex and move around on the studs thus loosening the nut’s. This is just my humble opinion.. opinions are like ass holes every one has one. Frank
These are used when To reduce hole size in Race wheel / Rim To smaller stud , More size are made , or make your own with lathe . Also I read you changed studs & was not able to find really what you wanted, Did you Look threw the Dorman wheel stud catalogue pages and pages of studs All so ARP , Moroso , Mark Williams Strange ?
Back in the day guys were having trouble with running 7/16 lug nuts on their GM cars because they took a metric thread nut. But they would do the same thing after being torqued, two or three weeks later they would be loose. So I would verify that they are in fact 7/16 studs.
The Jalopy Journal
