Hot rod culture and girls(pin-ups)?

I need some help. How do hot rods and customs, and girls go together?

Alright, Im into photography. Im wanting to a vintage pin-up inspired, hot rod culture themed photo project. Now, I know that girls and hot rods go together like peanutbutter and jelly, like Tom and Jerry, and like herpies on a crack whore... But my professor is a bit of a feminist, and thinks that if your not making some type of stament(usualy reguarding politics, sexisim, racisim, war, ect...) that its not "fine art"(But of course a fat ass pissing on the American flag would be, because that has content...). And she just cant see anything beyond just being an asthetic image with what Im wanting to do. So dont get me wrong, Im not going to let someone who just doesnt get it stop me from doing it, or get me down, but I want to have a better rebutal for her arguments... Now, I have been doing a lot of reading on the historical aspects of pin ups, and do have some rebutals of my own... But I want to hear some more points of view.

How have females played a role your hot rodding?
Do hot rods/customs and good looking girls go together?
And any general thoughts, or storys that may help me out....

And on another note, I know girls and cars have been put together more times than peanutbutter and jelly, but in my opinion, most of it is fairly lacking. I do have a concept, but Ill save that for later... If you want to see some of my work I did a few monts ago, check this post out: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107779&&showall=1


Thanks,
Cory

 

Find a girl that can weld and is into cars and shoot her working on the motor or something. That is ten times more "sexy" than a typical girl draped across a fender.

 

Just expound to her on the comparison between the flowing curves of both an early '30s automobile body and that of the female physique, and how you feel that the styling department that designed the car in question was in no small amount influenced by the gracefulness and inherent beauty and grace of that most exquisite of all God's creations.....woman.

Can you tell I was an English major?

 

You're asking, why do men like women? That is a big damn subject man.

 

Exactly. It's all about whats sexy, whats appealing to the eye. A womans curves are aesthetically pleasing in the same way that a nicely done car is. It's organic beauty in both the body of the woman and the way the sheet metal is formed.

Mike

 

I can think that one connection that could be made between pin ups and hotrods. It would be soldiers returning from WWII. With the girls painted on the nose's of fighters and bombers. Alot of these soldiers became rodders, car builders and artists.

 

I agree. But thats not exactly an easy find. I would much rather have models who are into the, dare I say "traditional" car culture. If any of yall know any, let me know.

And as far as comparing the curves of a woman to the curves of a car, thats one thing Im not really into. Both beautiful objects of desire, yes. But to me there is a HUGE contrast between the two. And maybe is the cliche "nice headlights" that kinda kills that idea for me.

Im not asking why yall like women, but how has that liking affected the things you do, with a focus on the automotive things you do?

Cory

 

Most of the girls that Ive actually seen really wrenching on a car spit chew and have crushes on guys named Cleatus. there not so hot.

Why not put chicks and cars together? Its like having cake and eating it too.

 

Are you all kidding me?

Keep it simple. What did guys of the '50s (and every era before or since) want more than a cool ride and a hot babe?

These instincts are primal. Don't look too far into it or try and make it something it's not.

Guys love fast, powerful cars.
Guys love beautiful women.

~Scotch~

 

Bring up the fact that Cadillac's most famous designs (50-59) were in part designed by women with a conscious effort to give the cars an ultra-feminine mystique. Dagmar bumpers for crying out loud. How about the proportions of some of the most beloved cars are reminiscent of the hourglass female figure. Notice the pinups were curvacious real examples of what a woman is, not some lightweight broomstick of a model they cram down our throats nowadays. It's all about the curves and class for me. The "what's underneath that prim-and-proper dress is so much more alluring than the spread it all out, "I'm a slut" look."

But I digress ... Django is right. The only thing sexier than a gorgeous dame draped across a car is a gorgeous dame wrenchin on a car. You can pull off sexy pinup with equal gender rights and occupational equality and all that jazz to shut your ill-informed feminist teacher the fuck up. I was an art student, and I had to deal with those bitches (Male Professors too) and learn to put them into their place "creatively".

 

You know, this may not help you, but we run into something similar here. I work in the museum division of the Kansas State Historical Society. Lately we've been running into complaints from some of our exhibits, for example:
"Your exhibit about movie westerns and the wild west has too many guns."

Our typical response is that history is history... we didn't make it, we are just representing it.

So I would say it's not how or why women played (and still play) a part in hotrodding, but your professor can't deny that they did and do.

I was an art major, so I butted heads with some professors and I know what you're going through... but it's your art and you should do what you want to do. I also don't believe every piece of art has to have a message that smacks you over the head (i.e. men suck, america sucks... capitalism sucks)..

it could be on beauty or telling history or whatever story you want to tell. Looking at your other photos I get what you're trying to do, it's very effective.

 

Well put.

Makes me want to don a loincloth and eat raw meat...

 

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1336669322


Show this to your teacher.

 

Sure, but that's not going to work for his instructor. That's the power of language--you know you've got it mastered when you can tell a woman she's got a big ass in language that makes her thank you for saying it.

 

Take a look through any Rod & Kulture. The Dame is dressed up 'period', just like the car. She's in a 'period' swimsuit, or a 'period' outfit, fishnet stockings, the whole shebang, and with a 'period' hairdo. It's all about the time. She's not in a modern bikini, with a modern hairdo (at least the good shots aren't.)

Some guys even have old shots of their girls back in the day when they were young posing with the car. So the modern 'period' shots are reminiscing (sp?) to a point, also.

Guys like cars. Guys like girls. To me it's no more complicated than that.

Pete

 

Good comments, and good video zombiehut, but as an artschool failure myself I've seen that dynamic between teacher and student play out, the best reason for being in school is the people you meet, the connections you make--but if the object is getting a good GPA so you can get a good job, or into a better art school, you have to play the game, give the teachers what they want.
If she's a humorless rad-fem intellectual who views lowbrow art with contempt, you're just asking for a low grade on your project if you do the pin-up thing.
I think Django's idea is a good alternative; I also think you do good work, and if that's what you want to do you could just take the low grade from this one teacher and move on.

I think a lot about the larger issue here and I still don't know the answers so I'll be quiet now.

On edit: What HEATHEN said.

 

Yes, it is primal. Yes, in some aspects it does objectify women. But does it degrade them? No. In my opinion, it does more to empower them.

I don’t want to get started on the hierocracy, and "holier-than-thou" fine art types. I could tell them that this is my art, so they can fuck off, but that doesn’t accomplish too much. I want to basically tell them the same thing, but in a more intellectual way. Your never going to make everyone happy, and nor do I want too. I want to do my art for the people who will get it, and not change it for those that don’t.

I will say that there are a lot of photos of good looking girls with cars that I would not consider to be the least bit artistic. As a matter of fact, a majority of the work I see with this theme falls into that category, which is one of the reasons I want to do this project. But I realize that there is a really big stigma about what I want to do, and it’s going to take a lot to over come it.

I have seen good looking girls who were into cars. But they are just very hard to find. Chances of them being into pre-60 rods and kustoms are very thin...

I would like to hear more about the female designs at caddy, and the history behind it, because that could be useful.

As to it being history... History does play a role in my work, and much of it is inspired by by stuff that happened long before I was born. My photos even have a bit of a vintage feel to them But I’m not trying to fool anyone into thinking that my photos were taken 50 years ago. I want to say how history plays a role in what I’m doing now, and why.

 

I graduated with honors from a reasonably well respected photography department of a large university. During my time in school I was confronted with the same type of instructors; gay rights, womens rights, all sorts of political bullshit. I always played dumb throughout the majority of the semester, just making well composed, quality images but avoiding any kind of conceptual subject matter... until I trotted out the final project. Then BOOM!, at the final critique I made comparisons that always confused the hell out of the other students and successfully shut up the professors. I won't go into detail, but I had a semifinal thesis project that involved the nicene creed and Pontiac super stockers.

There actually is some deeply rooted merit in a conceptual program in that it forces the student to think. Everything means something. Its up to the artist to figure out how to say what he wants and make it beautiful at the same time. No small task. Just because a car is cool or a girl is hot, it doesn't mean its gonna automatically result in a good picture.

In any case, I wouldn't mess with anything "traditional". That'll just get you into trouble- objectification of women bullshit. I can't offer specific advise without knowing your specific instructor, but the key is to figure out what makes them tick and give them exactly what they want, except on YOUR terms. Be sure to understand your concept thoroughly and be able to argue your point flawlessly. They'll hate you for it but they'll have to pass you if not give you an A.

Thinking about this stuff kinda makes me miss school.....






nah, it really doesn't.

 

Agreed, very HARD to find hot female gearheads, but for artistic purposes, that's why we have actors and actresses... and models.

 

My work doesnt have a vintage feel because Im trying to be vintage. Its because thats what I like. I could give a damn what is and is not "period", if it works. Granted, if you have something that is ultra modern in there, it being so out of place an mess stuff up. Same goes with cars I like(and DAILY DRIVE). Its all old school(I hate saying that...), but its because thats what I like, I dont do it for the sake of being old school. Also, peirod hair styles, period clothes, ect. all cost money, so Im limited to what my models(who arent getting paid, but get prints for their portfolios) can provide. Weither it be with cars or art, if something being period correct is the only reason your doing it, you really should re-examine what your doing. There is a lot of crap out there that is "period" that is downright stupid, unattractive, ect... Once again, Ill save this rant for another time, because its not what this thread is about...

Im on 56k and havent opened that video yet.

She is not a radical femineist, but I have heard her make a lot of statements about what is degrading to women. Ive also heard her compare iraq to veitnam, but this is neither the time or place to get into that. Im just saying that these are the typical type of "fine art" opinions and atitudes Im dealing with, and political views that the instructor likes to see...

 

Read my signature below

 

Whoa, I wasn't expecting such a philosophical question!

My 3 favorite things are hot rods, customs, and girls, in no particular order. Unfortunatly they don't always like me back

I like the comment about the WWII nose art. Anyone who argues with that is a commie

 

I've been working with a photographer named Sarah Lyon, maybe she could give you some solid advice about your photography and your teacher. Check out her website
http://www.sarahlyon.com/calendar/. She produces this calendar to celebrate women and automobiles/bikes/jets. Too bad you don't live closer, I'd let you photograph me working on my stuff! : )

 

Small Town
Go for the grade, the only person you hurt by presenting a project that is sure to mark you down is yourself. Do cool stuff for yourself... do school work for school.

ChevyGirlRox
Cool project. thanks for the link.
- Joe

 

it's easy...SEX SELLS!

 

Just ask your teacher "who are you to judge what art is and isn't?".

 

Sounds like your teacher needs an education, unfortunately, the so called educators seem to have the most closed minds, always reverting back to what some one else told them. They seem to have no ability to form opinions of their own, always referring back to their "education" to tell them what to believe. Now unfortunately, this one is trying to do the same thing to you. Be careful, there's a very subtle difference between education and brainwashing.
I wish I had the ability to stand beside a car and get paid for it just because I look good, and maybe your teacher secretly feels the same way. Inside most so called feminists there lies a frustrated, bitter woman who knows she doesn't quite "measure up".
Now as far as pin up girls and cars, I grudgingly agree with her, and always have. I may be in the minority here, but when I see a shot of a really nice car and some bikini clad girl is standing in front of it, or laying across it, it pisses me off, put her behind it if you must use her, but I am looking at a car, I know where to go if I want to see women. You gotta admit, there's something a little off here when a guy can spend years and tons of money and hard work to build a car, and when it gets into a magazine, he's not even pictured and some dumb chick with fake breasts who has never created anything in her life is, weird ain't it?
I went to art school, my theory is that it all starts with the photographer, he likes naked women, so he takes pictures of them, and when he shows them to other guys, they like naked women too, it's a pretty safe subject with a male audience, and a lot easier to get their attention than actually trying to elevate the real subject (in this case a car) to art.
As far as it empowering women, sorry, I ain't buying that, it only empowers the hot ones, and only as long as they're young and hot, once those looks are gone they often find themselves with nothing else to fall back on. It really does (in my opinion) diminish the less attractive ones, but that's life, things ain't equal, I wish I was built like Arnold Schwartzeneger, and had his money, but it ain't gonna happen in this lifetime.
Your teacher has the power, do what will help you in the class, sometimes we have to choose our battles, if she's a feminist you already have 2 strikes (or is it 2 balls) against you, and you can't win in this situation, she's already "educated".
Sorry about the rant, and the fact that I was probably NO help to you at all.

 

Good incite all around in this post. My feeling is, you are in art school to get the basic skills you need to be professional at what you do. In this case, photography. There are a few basics that you need to follow as far as composition, contrast, colors etc. that will always be pillars of quality art, beyond that, you need to stay true to what you want to do. Do you really care if you get a bad grade? You shouldn't. You should be concerned with what YOU get out of the class- period. Half of the art teachers out there don't know shit and they are really the most closed minded sometimes...you wouldn't think so, but they are.

The video might have some insight for you as far as low-brow art also, research nose art from WWI to now....That might give you some ammo..

BTW- nice work

 

Hey, I think there are plenty of ladies out there wrenching, welding, and gettin greasy. Do we have to chase after men named cleatus and spit chew?? (actually that is pretty funny) I work on cars because I enjoy working on cars...and I sure don't look very pretty when I am doing it. I guess that could be part of the problem.

 

Oh, and by the way. I totally agree with Burny. I was a art teacher at a University for a short time and I never told any of my students they couldn't do something because that is what teachers did to me. Most teachers are closed minded and you just have to keep those ideas of composition in mind and don't copy what is all ready out there. Be creative!