I have two 59a flatheads. Both have damage. The block on the right is perfect except it fell 4 feet to the ground and broke the water pump. When I took it apart, the block is busted between the two water passages. the block on the left has a crack in cylinder #7 and major pitting on the deck and bore at cylinders #4 & #7. It also has two cracks between a head stud and water passage. is the block with the water pump damage fixable? Or keep looking for another block?
Well it couldn't hurt to try and fix the water pump surface at this point, but it is also a load bearing mounting point and could let go again. I would bring in someone who is proficient at sticking cast iron back together if it is beyond your ability. That sucks. But, you could also have the one with cracked cylinders sleeved. I would not mind the corrosion or the small cracks between the stud and water jacket (normal) as long as the head gaskets and valves sealed up. With the poor breathing of the flathead the bumpy transition to the cylinder from the valve pocket would probably not be noticeable anyway if you're not trying to extract every last drop of performance out of it.
Getting the block with the broken water pump area repaired is going to be expensive - as it really needs to be done by a professional shop that has a furnace and the cast-iron repair experience to do it. It will cost you a lot more than the block is worth (sad but true). Also, once you put a block like this in the furnace - it may need all the surfaces machined as things tend to "move around". On the block with the rust pitting - looks like a perfect candidate to "relieve" the transfer area (that is what I'd do). The seats can be evaluated and if they need to be replaced, not a huge deal. The most important thing is that you use a machine shop that is very familiar with flatheads, has the correct valve mandrels/equipment, etc..
Another thing to ponder for a bit is the block with the broken-out area behind the water pump . . . why fix it at all? My guess is that with a good gasket there is really no place for the pump to leak and it will probably pump just fine. You've only lost one mounting hole out of the four, so as long as the threads are good in the other three - I'd not worry about strength. Anyway, just an idea to ponder.
I’m not sue the broken piece is even needed. The passages are built into the water pump. I can weld it back together I guess. Not sure if it’s cast steel or cast iron.
It is cast iron . . . if you wanted to "fix it" - it should be done in a furnace . . . and there are very few folks that have the equipment and know-how to do it.
I would think something needs to take up that space. I just don't see how you would keep it sealed with just a water pump and a gasket. That is the lower portion of the front water jacket. With the three remaining threads bosses, it should take the weight of the motor, but that seems like too much water to be contained by just bolting up the pump. Before moving forward, bolt up some water pumps and add water to the block and see what happens. If it holds, I'd then pressurize it to see if it still holds. If it does, you may have gotten lucky. I'd say take the pieces you have and use a high quality epoxy like Belzona to seal & glue them in place. Once cured, mount the pumps and run some water in the block. That's the route I would take first.
Those make me want to cry. I would not try to fix the one with the water pump damage. There is more at issue than obvious here. The other one can be fixed with a sleeve and relieve. If you notice the area that the gasket fire ring seals is right up to the cylinder bore and very close to the valve area. If you relieve this area it will still have pits that won't seal and need to be filled and machined flat. Same with any near the edge of the bores. The crack in the cylinder wall looks like it's been hit with a broken rod. Not really a problem with a sleeve installed. I would also use a big bore gasket to keep the fire ring farther away from the edge of the bore where there are less pits. Gaskets are available for bores up to .100" over size. Any welding should be done with pre-heating and very slow cooling. I have found a cast rod that could be used on the pits without a high temp pre-heat. I believe it's "Nomacast" rod. I've used it a time or two and it works good. I would then have both decks milled for flatness. Sadly, I would not even try to fix the other one. It might make a nice coffee table?
You need more than a furnace . You need one that a welder can get in when the block is hot. Bring the furnace back up to temperature then let it cool slowly. Have had this type of repair done several times on large industrial castings
Those blocks are not worth fixing - even if you could. Will actually be cheaper to buy a better block. They are "out there".
19Fordy and others have the best advice . . . why not find a better block? Especially if you're going to sink a lot of time, money and expensive parts into it. Everything costs twice what it used to cost and the cost for a different block will be small as compared to the rest!
I’ve got nothing to lose except try to weld it back together. I don’t like to show welding on the internet because I will get shit for doing it my way.
I tack welded the pieces back in. Then I will fully weld it and see what happens. Nothing to lose for trying
Haha! Looking good! Just make sure the middle threaded socket lines up with the hole in the pump. No expert on welding, so interesting to see if this works.
You will also need to weld the middle hole up and re-machine it, along with decking that front face. You should be able to find a blueprint in the Ford Benson Research Center online digital archives to help you re-locate that bolt hole position.
If you start throwing more weld on it, you'll probably get some cracks - any maybe in the good material. If you do weld some more, preheat the whole block if you can -- like on a BBQ and then after more welding try to let it cool as slowly as possible (welding blankets, vermiculite, etc..). As Banjo noted, if you're sure all the pieces are good and solid, I'd switch over to some high strength epoxy - rather than trying to fill all the voids in. There really isn't a need for strength in this area - so why risk ruining the block. Alternately, you might be better off with cast-iron brazing from this point forward.
Heck yeah! Why not give it a shot? Do you plan on pressure testing it once your done or just send it?
The one with the cylinder damage is a better build candidate honestly. Sleeve it and relieve it. Good luck on fixing the water pump housing, I would heat the absolute hell out of it before welding anything to it, and let it cool naturally, fill in the left over voids and thin areas with JB weld and let her sit up real well. It will probably be all right honestly. They are tough motors.
Braze the rest of it with a rod containing a lot of silver. This givers a low melting point and very good bond on cast iron. I do this on a lot of motorcycle barrels without any problems.
I have seen “amazing fixes” b4 but this particular set of fixes is “off the charts”——truly unbelievable!!!
Ziggster, Thank you for posting that video. I love watching those guys. They aren't afraid to fix anything. They were using cow patties as furnace fuel for goodness sake. I do think sometimes we all get caught up on overthinking and over engineering problems due to the technology at our disposal. Think back to what a mechanic would do back in the late '40's/early '50's. He'd find a way to fix it and charge $2.75 for his labor. LOL! To the OP, me personally, I would not get hung up on getting the mechanical drawings or making sure that area is dead nuts flat. Goop it up, test it and see what happens. If it holds water, try to pressurize it. If it still holds water, you're good to go.
Brazing can fix that right up,,,,,almost like it never happened . Use a good filler rod and a good torch tip . It mounts the water pump,,,,not a ton of stress in that area anyway . The bottom bolt holds most of the load ,,,,,for the engine mount . You should be able to get that fairly strong again,,,,,brazing is stronger than most people give it credit . Tommy
That’s what I was wondering. In my previous life, we manufactured cast iron rotary vane a/c compressors, and I recall once that we had one with a crack, and the “tool guy” in the shop brazed it up and it ran fine.
I think I’ll finish it with brazing. I’m picking up another block Sunday just to see if there is a better one to start with.
Good plan . . . more blocks to choose from is always better . . . . just go out in my shop and you'll know it to be true! LOL
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